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-- "Proven Crosses" (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928430989)

"Proven Crosses"

Lots of people go after a proven cross, I've been told by air of big time breeders that the first time cross is always the best cross. The 2nd 3rd 4th cross can make nice dogs but it just won't be like that first time cross. Have any of you experienced this or is it just a theory or what? Just been thinking on this and was going to ask yalls opinion on it.

Re: Cross

quote:

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Originally posted by LittleCreek
Me and only me talking, I wouldn't have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th cross. Not saying they don't work because I'm sure some have. But from my experience first is always better.

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__________________
Christopher Huffman

If The Genes Line Up?

If all the genes line up you have got it made and they will be no difference from the first breeding to the last breeding but how many times does it take before you know its a proven cross and id never breed a dog under 2 years old and by the time you could call it a proven cross the gyp is going to be 5 or 6 so she or the sire would be going on the down side and later pups may not be as good as the first ones, i myself would rather have a pup from a good young gyp that has never been bred before to a top producing male any day of the week but that may just be me.

__________________
( White Light What A Night )

I'm no big named breeder... BUT I've had great results from repeat crosses.

I crossed Lobo and Sassy several times with great results from each cross as well as Lobo and Shadow.

My Gr.Ch. Swampmusic Boone was off of a repeat cross that was made about 5 times. His brother Nt.Ch.Ch. Oneils Lobo Benson was off of the last cross of Lobo and Sassy.

I've bred Ch. Swampmusic Pride to Lester's Country Style Ruby several times with GREAT results from each breeding. I bet the guys that got pups off the last cross are just as happy with the pups the guys got off the first cross.


It's time to stop believing OLD WISE TAILS and back it up with some proof...

There are three pups in Ohio off of Pride and Ruby from three different litters I'm pretty sure a hunt could be set up with all three of them.

__________________
Swampmusic Kennel
Remembering Our Past......
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
Ch.Swampmusic Lil Bit Sassy
Ch.Swampmusic Misty Shadow
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Boone
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Pride
But Looking To The Future...

Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Big Hoss




Dennis Robinson
Cell 540-295-3892

The genetics are the same whether it's the first are the fourth !!jmo the people,that get the pups make more of a difference then anything !!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by POTOMAC
The genetics are the same whether it's the first are the fourth !!jmo the people,that get the pups make more of a difference then anything !!!!

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__________________
T.Osborne..Homemade Kennels!
Home Of.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean 11/28/03 - 4/14/14.
GrNtCh Big Money
GrNtCh North Mt Mort
GrChGrNtCh T&R’s Homemade Trouble

GrNtChGrCh Homemade Josie.
Homemade Tank.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean (SEMEN)
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GrNtChGrCh Tj's Stylish Lipper (SEMEN)
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HomeMade Kennels
Newton N.C
2010 SETWA BREEDER OF THE YEAR!!
(828) 302-5480

Myself if a first cross is a good one dang sure I am going to to it again if possible . Never have had it not work the second time around when tried . Genetic match ups are genetic match ups . No 2 pups are the same but when you have a litter that across the board was a good one chances are the next one will be too .
And you all are right about where they go keeping pups in coonhunters hands will help rather than having them sitting in someone's pen .

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
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RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

I'm huntin dogs out of the forth cross now same every time I got one out of the first cross third cross and fourth cross all are the same start early go hunting big mouth coon treers I will repeat it as long as they both live and if you think any different come go hunting I will show you.

I am no expert, my hounds are the extra trashy depression era sportsman type, i crossed curly and mabel out of 11 pups in the litter 7 are doing great I have 5, my buddys have 2. Sire was almost a 4yo at time of cross dam had just turned 3yo young dogs are now 18mo and i am having a hard time deciding which ones should i sell and which ones should i keep. I do not know if this is considered a proven cross by the experts or not.

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

how can you say a cross is proven unless the results are proven by more than 1 litter. Anything less is just a lucky cross in my eyes. A proven cross would have to produce dogs with the same traits on more than one occasion and have consistency through out a majority of their offspring. Not only direct sons / daughters. But to carry traits for generations! jmo

__________________
Then peter said unto them, Repent, and be
baptized every one of you in the name of
jesus christ for the remission of sins , and ye
shall receive the gift of the holy ghost

quote:

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Originally posted by POTOMAC
The genetics are the same whether it's the first are the fourth !!jmo the people,that get the pups make more of a difference then anything !!!!

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Repeat Crosses

Here's my take on that.

(1) The great majority of first time crosses fail to produce outstanding results.

(2) Occasionally you'll hit that first time cross that produces an outstanding litter.

(3) When people make a second cross and it doesn't work as good as the first cross, which was outstanding, people will start saying the second cross didn't work as well. The question then is: "As well as what?; (a) the first litter of the same cross that was outstanding, or (b) the great majority of first time crosses that fail.

(4) If you compare the results of all "first-time" crosses that have never worked, and all "second-time" crosses that worked well the first time, your results would be better on the crosses that have worked before. That doesn't mean always, but it sure improves your odds.

(5) If you got a poor litter on a first cross, and repeated it a second time, the second litter may very well be better (can't be worse). But those aren't the crosses we repeat. At least I hope that's the case.

(6) When someone tells you that second crosses don't work as well, you're question should be: As well as what?

(7) I've seen great crosses that didn't work as well the second time. But, I've seen many more crosses that never worked at all!!!

(8) Baseball Perspective. Hank Aaron was an all-time great. His little brother Tommy wasn't near as good as Hank, but played several years in the Majors. Would you rather have Tommy, or some random first-child, on your baseball team???

(9) So, if you get superstars from the first cross, and stars from the second cross, the second cross is not as great as the first, but shines compared to just about everything else.

After reading all of this I would sure be depressed if I was the youngest child in a family of ten.

"shadinc" Even though you think the 9 crosses ahead of you were progressively better than you, mabybe they were outstanding and you are still a better one than most of the others in Louisiana. I know a lot of coonhunters over there and even without knowing you, I would say you certainly have a good chance to be special.

Ha Ha

I read it and i still dont no where it was going but i would really hate to be a litter of 12 and be number 12 unless the first 6 crosses flopped then number 12 could be number 1.
now that is something to think about aint it.

__________________
( White Light What A Night )

quote:

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Originally posted by David Morgan
"shadinc" Even though you think the 9 crosses ahead of you were progressively better than you, mabybe they were outstanding and you are still a better one than most of the others in Louisiana. I know a lot of coonhunters over there and even without knowing you, I would say you certainly have a good chance to be special.

Ha Ha

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I came from a first time cross and im a lil better than the second cross!!! Lol

__________________
jason

most, if not all "freaks" come from first time crosses and the same cross is made over and over trying to get another.
Not gonna happen from what ive seen.
The "freak" probably issnt gonna reproduce very well but a littermate will.
The more I watch and study the subject the less i know about it.

Doug Compton bred Backwater Pearl to Fletchers Stylish Jake two times. Both litters were outstanding. Doug won breeder of the year both times

First Born

I'm a first born, so I'm obviously the best!!!

But, my little brothers insist that they are "new and improved ".

So what if my youngest brother won two state championships and wrestled in the classic! I didn't! But, I'm still the best. Not going to let facts dissuade me!!! I was first, so I'm the best!!! LOL

My little brothers don't get on this site, so I'm good!!!

First Born

I'm a first born, so I'm obviously the best!!!

But, my little brothers insist that they are "new and improved ".

So what if my youngest brother won two state championships and wrestled in the classic! I didn't! But, I'm still the best. Not going to let facts dissuade me!!! I was first, so I'm the best!!! LOL

My little brothers don't get on this site, so I'm good!!!