UKC Forums - Reproducers list

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Posted by byrd, lance on 06-14-2015 04:10 PM:

Reproducers list

Personally I think there needs to be one thing added to the ranks. The 100 pups eliminates so many studs. I get they don't want a single repeated cross to get a hound on there. I think it should be changed to 100 pups or any stud that has more titled hounds on the ground than the top 10 100 pup studs should go on it. By requiring the 100 pups totally it is causing a few to just breed to get 100 pups plus it leaves some reproducers off the list. I don't prefer studs having to breed those extra pups when they are not needed. I wish that would be considered. Are there any other ideas. I do like their being a reproducers list for sure. Thanks

Posted by everett on 06-14-2015 07:55 PM:

Lance, I agree totally

But, very few pick a stud because he's on the list, most breedings are bloodline oriented, or some thing else, so until that changes it's not going to factor in that much as far as breeding and out come is concerned.......Gerald

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Posted by joeinmo on 06-16-2015 05:55 AM:

one cross

the prob with not requiring at least 100 pups is that one cross or a couple supper reproducing females could put a dog on the list , the more pups your dog has on the ground the truer the numbers are

Posted by steeb_63 on 06-16-2015 01:21 PM:

this is true but you have to get the pups in completion hunters hands and that seems to be getting tougher and tougher?

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Posted by steeb_63 on 06-16-2015 01:22 PM:

completion hunting that is

Posted by harleydan1956 on 06-16-2015 02:09 PM:

The 100 pups may seem like a great idea, but it does cause stud owners to breed females that should NOT be bred to have pups. In other words, I personally know a stud owner that was very selective on what he bred his stud too... Now at almost 8 years old, he will get his 100 pups. But had he bred every female that came his way, how many worthless pups would have been created in the process? I am smart enough to know that all crosses produce duds,.... But doesn't it make more sense to try your best not to do that?
I do believe people look at that list, then at the breeding... Then decide. But with the amount of stud dogs out there, the lesser known studs will never get a chance. And as soon as the go historical, they fall off forever. I'd much rather breed to a dog that has 50-60 pups on the ground and alot of nice dogs, than to a dog that has been bred to death to get their 100 nite chs... JMO

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Posted by byrd, lance on 06-16-2015 04:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by harleydan1956
The 100 pups may seem like a great idea, but it does cause stud owners to breed females that should NOT be bred to have pups. In other words, I personally know a stud owner that was very selective on what he bred his stud too... Now at almost 8 years old, he will get his 100 pups. But had he bred every female that came his way, how many worthless pups would have been created in the process? I am smart enough to know that all crosses produce duds,.... But doesn't it make more sense to try your best not to do that?
I do believe people look at that list, then at the breeding... Then decide. But with the amount of stud dogs out there, the lesser known studs will never get a chance. And as soon as the go historical, they fall off forever. I'd much rather breed to a dog that has 50-60 pups on the ground and alot of nice dogs, than to a dog that has been bred to death to get their 100 nite chs... JMO

Part of my point exactly. If a hound has 80 pups on the ground and has 14 titled pups, where is he on the list in your eyes compared to the list now? Especially if he is bread to 5 or more females. Thake that example as hypothetical.

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Posted by byrd, lance on 06-16-2015 04:40 PM:

Re: one cross

quote:
Originally posted by joeinmo
the prob with not requiring at least 100 pups is that one cross or a couple supper reproducing females could put a dog on the list , the more pups your dog has on the ground the truer the numbers are

Yes that is true too. Everyone has good ponts.

If a Stud has 44 pups on the ground and has more total hunt titled hounds than hounds with well over 100 pups I want to know about him persnally. I am referring to number not percentage. The percentage would be astronomical in that case. JMO

Posted by Mad-Dog on 06-16-2015 05:00 PM:

Reproducers List

How about 50 or 60 pups from 5 or 6 females, each from a different bloodline. If a dog is a true reproducer he should cross well on most bloodlines not just one or two females from the same bloodline. Just an idea to be kicked around...........Timm

Posted by 8hawg on 06-16-2015 06:22 PM:

It really don't matter. People will breed to what they want. I believe the list has some, but little influence on what they bred too. If your looking to see what's truly current, keep track of the Performance Lists. This along with the reproducers list, and keeping up with the info in bloodlines should provide you with a fair amount of info. If a dog male or female is reproducing the word usually gets out,NO LIST NEEDED.

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 06-16-2015 08:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by 8hawg
It really don't matter. People will breed to what they want. I believe the list has some, but little influence on what they bred too. If your looking to see what's truly current, keep track of the Performance Lists. This along with the reproducers list, and keeping up with the info in bloodlines should provide you with a fair amount of info. If a dog male or female is reproducing the word usually gets out,NO LIST NEEDED.

Your last statement is probably the most accurate statement on here. You will breed to something that you have seen good young dogs out of. Regardless. As I stated, I would rather breed to a stud that had alot if nice dogs... There are alot less competition hunters out there than there used to be. A ton more Coon... And really different hunting conditions than 30 years ago..you will breed to your liking... No matter what a list says...

Posted by HILLBILLYS BLU on 06-16-2015 09:05 PM:

I've thought about this for a while now, and all you guys have legit points.... If male A is bred to female A, and produces 8 pups, three of which turns out to be titled, that cross is made two more time's and produces the same results..... Male A can be bred to however many female's it takes to get 100 pups, and never have another pup to make a title, and will be on the reproduced list, my thinking is way outside the box, but am I right???

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Posted by everett on 06-16-2015 09:16 PM:

Hillbilly

Not exactly, it's calculated on the number of pups that make ntch vs the number of pups the stud has the more pups he has the more his percentage will go down, unless of coarse he has pups being titled out in the hunts, I'm not 100% sure but I believe it takes 1 ntch to off set 10 pups, but I may have missunderstood that.....Gerald

Posted by BIG$BLUES on 06-16-2015 09:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HILLBILLY'S BLU
I've thought about this for a while now, and all you guys have legit points.... If male A is bred to female A, and produces 8 pups, three of which turns out to be titled, that cross is made two more time's and produces the same results..... Male A can be bred to however many female's it takes to get 100 pups, and never have another pup to make a title, and will be on the reproduced list, my thinking is way outside the box, but am I right???

yes that would be 9 pups that make NtCh and if the number of pups is 100 he would be at 9%

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Posted by Treedoggmafia on 06-17-2015 02:57 AM:

Everybody is competing in the same way!! I honestly believe A LOT more unworthy males would be bred than already are if the numbers were lowered!

Posted by HILLBILLYS BLU on 06-17-2015 01:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BIG$BLUES
yes that would be 9 pups that make NtCh and if the number of pups is 100 he would be at 9%

I was thinking that, but i wasn't sure. My thinking is that a good cross can be made, then duplicated to produce the numbers needed, to make list. We all know that some crosses work, and some don't, no matter how good the male, or female is.

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Posted by Vic Stoll on 06-17-2015 04:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HILLBILLY'S BLU
We all know that some crosses work, and some don't, no matter how good the male, or female is.

Amen brother!

A cold & hard truth to add to that, the majority of the hounds produced from any cross that end up being able to run & tree a coon (even at an early age) end up finishing out to a hound that falls in the "common" realm.

Some would have you believe every cross that has a dog as the sire or dam of the offspring which originates from a Kennel name/bloodline will all make it & all be exceptional. Optimism is great, but honesty regarding the final product is even more refreshing.

I don't know about other folks, but I like hearing about the weaknesses/faults or things that could be improved upon just as much as hearing about the strengths of a dog or dogs from different crosses.

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Posted by cjr1982 on 06-17-2015 05:24 PM:

My father and few other old coon hunters have beat in my head the last few years you breed good dogs to good dogs, good breed dogs to good breed dogs you have the best chance of getting what you are looking for in a hound, it is still a shot in the dark but it is your best chance. Too many are breeding for the number 100 before they even know if their hound will produce anything at all. All this does is flood the market with worthless pups and drag down the breed. Some are doing a very good job with selective breeding and others are shooting from the hip every chance they get, lets get the lucky number 100! There will always be a few sneak through and make it but the majority will not! JMO and hope this does not offend anyone.

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 06-17-2015 07:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cjr1982
My father and few other old coon hunters have beat in my head the last few years you breed good dogs to good dogs, good breed dogs to good breed dogs you have the best chance of getting what you are looking for in a hound, it is still a shot in the dark but it is your best chance. Too many are breeding for the number 100 before they even know if their hound will produce anything at all. All this does is flood the market with worthless pups and drag down the breed. Some are doing a very good job with selective breeding and others are shooting from the hip every chance they get, lets get the lucky number 100! There will always be a few sneak through and make it but the majority will not! JMO and hope this does not offend anyone.

AMEN.....
These just keep getting better!

Posted by harleydan1956 on 06-17-2015 07:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cjr1982
My father and few other old coon hunters have beat in my head the last few years you breed good dogs to good dogs, good breed dogs to good breed dogs you have the best chance of getting what you are looking for in a hound, it is still a shot in the dark but it is your best chance. Too many are breeding for the number 100 before they even know if their hound will produce anything at all. All this does is flood the market with worthless pups and drag down the breed. Some are doing a very good job with selective breeding and others are shooting from the hip every chance they get, lets get the lucky number 100! There will always be a few sneak through and make it but the majority will not! JMO and hope this does not offend anyone.

AMEN.....
These just keep getting better!

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