UKC Forums - Definition of a stud dog

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Posted by droopy_dog2004 on 05-18-2015 10:41 PM:

Definition of a stud dog

What are yalls opinion of a stud dog?

Here's mine, first off pedigree has nothing to do with it, sure everyone has there on line of blood they prefer depending on the traits youre after in the pups. But bottom line is the hound has to throw stronger traits into his pups then himself to be true stud dog material. I'm also aware the female has a lot to do with reproduction as much of not more than the stud.

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Posted by RLenhart on 05-18-2015 11:02 PM:

Re: Definition of a stud dog

quote:
Originally posted by droopy_dog2004
What are yalls opinion of a stud dog?

Here's mine, first off pedigree has nothing to do with it, sure everyone has there on line of blood they prefer depending on the traits youre after in the pups. But bottom line is the hound has to throw stronger traits into his pups then himself to be true stud dog material. I'm also aware the female has a lot to do with reproduction as much of not more than the stud.

How many stud dogs do you know of throwing pups with these strong traits your talking about that DON'T have the pedigree to go with it?

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 05-18-2015 11:35 PM:

Re: Definition of a stud dog

quote:
Originally posted by droopy_dog2004
What are yalls opinion of a stud dog?

Here's mine, first off pedigree has nothing to do with it, sure everyone has there on line of blood they prefer depending on the traits youre after in the pups. But bottom line is the hound has to throw stronger traits into his pups then himself to be true stud dog material. I'm also aware the female has a lot to do with reproduction as much of not more than the stud.

if he is a true stud you should be able to back most of line up to him.

Posted by N Williams on 05-19-2015 02:33 AM:

A good stud will throw one a litter better than the female. I believe it's. 85% the female. I have never had a pup off a female that would go hunting and tree a coon that I couldn't get a pup off her to do the same. I have had a bunch of duds that were off big named studs that were off females I knew nothing about I had to cull. I learned I will not even consider a pup if it's not off a nice female.

Posted by robert whitten on 05-19-2015 02:49 AM:

I resemble that remark lol I will hunt high and low for a good bred reproducing female before I go looking for a stud . a good female will throw good pups from the neighbors yard dog lol .

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Posted by Jeff Prince on 05-19-2015 03:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by N Williams
A good stud will throw one a litter better than the female. I believe it's. 85% the female. I have never had a pup off a female that would go hunting and tree a coon that I couldn't get a pup off her to do the same. I have had a bunch of duds that were off big named studs that were off females I knew nothing about I had to cull. I learned I will not even consider a pup if it's not off a nice female.

I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought this way . A top female will make a stud dog and a sorry
one will make them look bad .

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Posted by N Williams on 05-19-2015 03:50 AM:

I was thinking about this the other day. I have had 7 hounds in my life that I was able to train them to go hunting and tree coons. All 7 I had hunted with the female and knew they would go hunting and tree coons. Now some of them started treeing coon at 6 months some at 15 months and it seemed like all of them would put it all together:I mean go hunting pass off game and tree coon at about 17 months to 2 years old. But here was the kicker to all this. Now here was my magic way of doing it and this is all rights reservered. You can read it in my book Walking with Nick. I had a little more sence than the dog AND I HUNTED THEM. YES I HUNTED THEM. And training started as soon as I brought them home. Yes if you are not willing to disapper from the world for about a year and make one then DON'T BUY A PUP IT JUST WONT WORK OUT. People want to go buy a pup from a nice female and that good stud. Set them in a kennel till there 9 months not socialize with them. I can promice you those hounds you see consistantly in the winners circle there was alot of sweat, long nights, and many nights of wanting to give up that went into it. If you don't own a nice female don't take a no good female to a good stud. Look for a nice female and buy a pup off her and whatever stud the owner chooses.

Posted by shadinc on 05-19-2015 03:35 PM:

Do you think the female is more than 50%. It's more like a great female is never bred to a dud stud. But many dud females are bred to great studs. That could be the reason good females make better pups. They're never bred to weak studs.

Posted by Vic Stoll on 05-19-2015 03:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by N Williams
I was thinking about this the other day. I have had 7 hounds in my life that I was able to train them to go hunting and tree coons. All 7 I had hunted with the female and knew they would go hunting and tree coons. Now some of them started treeing coon at 6 months some at 15 months and it seemed like all of them would put it all together:I mean go hunting pass off game and tree coon at about 17 months to 2 years old. But here was the kicker to all this. Now here was my magic way of doing it and this is all rights reservered. You can read it in my book Walking with Nick. I had a little more sence than the dog AND I HUNTED THEM. YES I HUNTED THEM. And training started as soon as I brought them home. Yes if you are not willing to disapper from the world for about a year and make one then DON'T BUY A PUP IT JUST WONT WORK OUT. People want to go buy a pup from a nice female and that good stud. Set them in a kennel till there 9 months not socialize with them. I can promice you those hounds you see consistantly in the winners circle there was alot of sweat, long nights, and many nights of wanting to give up that went into it. If you don't own a nice female don't take a no good female to a good stud. Look for a nice female and buy a pup off her and whatever stud the owner chooses.

I will give an "AMEN" to this mindset! You are smarter than I have been & have learned this lesson much earlier in life than I did. I will also add I have thrown color/looks to the curb as well.

In my opinion, those GOOD females are the KEY ingredient, period!

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Posted by N Williams on 05-19-2015 04:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
Do you think the female is more than 50%. It's more like a great female is never bred to a dud stud. But many dud females are bred to great studs. That could be the reason good females make better pups. They're never bred to weak studs.

I saw a female one time that was breed to about 5 different studs some of the studs were average. Ever pup she threw was average at worst. Yes some studs are better than others and genetics are a imperfect science but think about this. Most historical studs were made famous by one or two crosses. And I must say if I had 2000 kids a few would be worth a dern. I'm not saying the male had nothing to do with. From the 7 I trained it's was the female they got most of the ability from. It was like the stud would produce mouth and looks.

Posted by HOBO on 05-19-2015 05:32 PM:

Could someone please explain to me how a female is going to pass more than 50% of herself to her pups? Th. Pups get 50% for each parent..

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Posted by amazingcursouth on 05-19-2015 05:48 PM:

always remember that you do not train genetics. dogs are born with the genetics to reproduce or they dont.

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Posted by shadinc on 05-19-2015 07:39 PM:

Re: Definition of a stud dog

[QUOTE]Originally posted by droopy_dog2004
[B]What are yalls opinion of a stud dog?

I guess the answer would be, "One that throws good pups when crossed with a top female."

Posted by turnemloose97 on 05-19-2015 07:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Could someone please explain to me how a female is going to pass more than 50% of herself to her pups? Th. Pups get 50% for each parent..

Posted by N Williams on 05-19-2015 08:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Could someone please explain to me how a female is going to pass more than 50% of herself to her pups? Th. Pups get 50% for each parent..

Maybe so. It's just been my experience the ones I've hunted seem to take way more after the female.

Posted by N Williams on 05-19-2015 08:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by amazingcursouth
always remember that you do not train genetics. dogs are born with the genetics to reproduce or they dont.

Your right. Training hounds is more what not to do. All the handler can do is guide them in the right direction.

Posted by on 05-19-2015 08:16 PM:

I wish I had the male or female thing figured out but I do know this. When attending several hunts around the country you may see 4 or 5 dogs out of the same sire and different dams. Those dogs do well in the hunts and I think since the Sire is the common thread some credit has to be given to him.
Here is the kicker. This is based upon dogs at a hunt and them winning or placing. Take them to the woods away from the hunt and see what kind of coondog they really are and you may get a different picture.

Posted by Jeff Prince on 05-19-2015 08:28 PM:

Bruce you see 4 or 5 out of a stud winning out of how many pups ? You see more than that winning out of certain females with 1/100 the amount of pups on the ground. The mother to your stud Georgia Cyclone is a prime example.
Outstanding pedigree on your blaze dog by the way.

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Posted by HOBO on 05-19-2015 08:35 PM:

Of course you are going to see more winners out of a female than ANY stud dog. The females have WAY WAY WAY less pups than most big name stud dogs. I would hope that the females would seem to be throwing better than he stud dogs. But you can't blame the stud dog if guys breed a sorry female to their dog.

Posted by shadinc on 05-19-2015 09:08 PM:

That was my point in my last post. If stud dog owners would select the females they breed the same way female owners select a stud, we would have fewer useless dogs. Fewer dogs, but a way higher percentage of good dogs.

Posted by HOBO on 05-19-2015 09:50 PM:

Is it really up to the stud dog owners to weed out the sorry females? Shouldn't the guys carrying those females be held responsible for their actions?

Posted by on 05-19-2015 10:02 PM:

Jeff your right the female is important.

Posted by msinc on 05-19-2015 10:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Could someone please explain to me how a female is going to pass more than 50% of herself to her pups? Th. Pups get 50% for each parent..

From a biological standpoint I guess it is a perfect 50/50 mix. I think what he may be referring to is like when most of the pups in a given litter seem to be more like one or the other parent. There is an old term we used to see in the stud dog adds back in the day..."dominant reproducer" Nobody much uses that term these days, at least I haven't seen or heard it in years.
Some stud dogs had this trait or ability for sure. In the case of some of the big name Walkers back in the day, for example, the markings would be much like the "dominant" parent. All red headed dogs with a black blanket back, even though the female was almost all white with a black head. Many of the other traits like voice or tree style could be there too.
As to picking what to breed to, or the thought that the better females should reproduce litters of better puppies. because who would breed a really good female to a second string stud dog. I have long said that a stud dog owner has two ways to go, and it is a tough choice for obvious reasons...you can be on the top reproducers list and have a high percentage number or you can drive a new truck. Example: Lipper produced 5122 pups but only had an 8% rate. Logan's Wild Clover had 185 pups, but he reproduced at 21%. I don't know just how picky he was regarding females, but it sure looks like it. Maybe Lipper was only bred to the best females...but it sure looks more like they were more interested in the money.
I was out of coon hunting for a while and one of the first things I noticed when I got back into it was the reversal in preferred sex and price of female puppies vs. males. I think many folks have come to realize that it is way harder to be successful with a male. If you have a first rate female you can still pick any stud to breed to you want and then ask and probably get top dollar for the pups. You really have to have one super stand out male walker to make it in the stud dog business these days.

Posted by shadinc on 05-19-2015 10:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Is it really up to the stud dog owners to weed out the sorry females? Shouldn't the guys carrying those females be held responsible for their actions?

I wasn't trying to lay blame. Merely point out that it takes both.

Posted by POTOMAC on 05-19-2015 10:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by N Williams
I was thinking about this the other day. I have had 7 hounds in my life that I was able to train them to go hunting and tree coons. All 7 I had hunted with the female and knew they would go hunting and tree coons. Now some of them started treeing coon at 6 months some at 15 months and it seemed like all of them would put it all together:I mean go hunting pass off game and tree coon at about 17 months to 2 years old. But here was the kicker to all this. Now here was my magic way of doing it and this is all rights reservered. You can read it in my book Walking with Nick. I had a little more sence than the dog AND I HUNTED THEM. YES I HUNTED THEM. And training started as soon as I brought them home. Yes if you are not willing to disapper from the world for about a year and make one then DON'T BUY A PUP IT JUST WONT WORK OUT. People want to go buy a pup from a nice female and that good stud. Set them in a kennel till there 9 months not socialize with them. I can promice you those hounds you see consistantly in the winners circle there was alot of sweat, long nights, and many nights of wanting to give up that went into it. If you don't own a nice female don't take a no good female to a good stud. Look for a nice female and buy a pup off her and whatever stud the owner chooses.

Bingo we have winner !!!!! 100% fact not fiction !!! Another reason you always see the same people always have good dogs cause they put the time into them!!!

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