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coon dogs with out a mouth

I own one, and have seen quite a few. I know of quite a few studs that are exceptional hounds but may not throw the greatest mouths. I also own a hound that has a huge mouth but is not near the coon dog my female is. I have hunted with a lot of dogs that had good mouths but I personally wouldn't trade a bag of feed for.
So it seems to me that there are a few lines that are known for good mouths, but may have other glaring holes that I can't overlook. But then there are also lines that they may produce overall nicer dogs but aren't near as nice of mouths.
Has anyone else noticed this conundrum, or is it just me?
If you have made a similar observation, any theories on why this holds true?
Please no posts bragging that you have the complete the package, the purpose of this thread is to have a discussion not promote your favorite line or dog.

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
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I really think it's just the luck of the draw. If your lucky enough to get one with a real horn the odds are still stacked against you that there is going to be SOMETHING the dog falls short on but every once in a while you'll get lucky enough to score one that has all the measurables along with a great mouth. IMO

What kind of a mouth does that Ozzy pup have?

Mouth is # one for me i know that sounds stupid for the dog may not be abe to tree a coon at all or a false treeing idiot or run all night in a 2 acre corn field which in the end will all get it culled anyway but as John Wick said in one of his books i ain't hunting no Rat terrior.

A hound has got to sound like a hound for me to keep it hearing the race not watching the garmin hear the locate and tree and that beautiful loud chop mouth makes all the difference in the world to me but this don't make this the greatest dog in the world in fact average or a little above is as good a dog as i have ever had but i get mad even when hunting with other people when they are hunting dogs you can't here bark 200 yards and start treeing them with their garmin.

Guess the old way is gone for good but like some one said on a post yesterday nothing beats a good three or four dog race all on the same track and all on the same tree.
Old Timers still call that pleasure hunting.

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TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING INSTEAD
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Re: coon dogs with out a mouth

quote:

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Originally posted by Fisher13
I own one, and have seen quite a few. I know of quite a few studs that are exceptional hounds but may not throw the greatest mouths.

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I agree with what your saying. My dog has a decent mouth but is a very hard chopping tree dog. I just listen in between the loud dog barks when I need too. But I have also hunted against a couple of LOUD hounds during comp hunts that I wouldn't feed. So I will live with his decent mouth and tree him when his is stuck belly up.

Both mine have well above average mouths. I want keep one long that dont. Have to have it. I like to hear one way in there. I dont like a chop mouth dog either. Cant stand to listen to it. Just personal preference though. Yall can hunt whatever floats your boat.

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Michael Ghorley

You guys are suggesting there is some connection between the quality of mouth and the ability to hunt? Seriously?

No wonder they are missing those old guys, these new guys got some head shaking ideas.

I'm not saying there is any connection in it at all. I'm was just saying my dog lacks a powerful mouth but is good everywhere else. The really loud walkers I hunted against was just that loud and had no tracking or treeing ability. So I will take my dog with a decent mouth over a really loud dog that lacks everything. In time I hope to find the total package.

Personally I don't care how good they are. I won't hunt one with a poor mouth

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haveing a big mouth dog in a comp hunt is a nice advantage. it can also get u in more trouble if ya hunt close to homeowners.pleasure huntin with a garmin ya don't really need a big mouth. i perfer a big mouth dog and breed for it but i'll hunt anything at least for a little while. lol! i have been lucky enough to have never had one that was poor on voice but i have heard a few. i dout i could hunt one very long that was poor and i don't think i could breed it unless it was something real special.

This is a very good question, and one that a whole lot of breeders would like to nail down. Like Pam Johnson says, it's always been luck of the draw for me as well. The line of Redbones I used to hunt were noted for throwing some good voices and some that sounded like squeak toys. There was no rhyme or reason to it. When I line bred a male with a decent voice to a female with an above average voice I got a litter with most of the pups having excellent mouths. A couple weren't as good.
I have a young Walker in the kennel now that has the best loudest voice I have ever owned. I have hunted him in a few nite hunts and he was at least twice as loud as the next one to him. He is Mr. Clean bred on top and Mr. Smith bred on the bottom. Maybe he is, but I haven't really heard that Mr. Clean is noted for throwing extremely loud pups and the breeder told me that the dam did not have a very loud voice so where my pup got it is anyone's guess. He did say the sire had a good voice, but I haven't hunted with him.
I have two young Blueticks that are both Jet bred and they have good loud voices. I haven't heard anyone complain about their Jet bred Blueticks being squeaky or pups occasionally coming out that way.
I have seen several very loud Lipper bred dogs that were very hyper and barked a lot. "Active in the kennel" is the P.C. way of saying it these days. I have never seen a very hyper active, kennel pacing, barking mad idiot amount to much. But, I always regarded it to be because most people get sick of trying to deal with them before the dog got a chance to grow up and calm down. I have noted that the louder dogs seem to take a little bit longer to grow up and quit acting like a puppy but that never affected the way they turned out as an adult.

Edit: after thinking about this some more, one thing to consider is that years ago it was generally regarded that big houndy dogs with loud voices and cold noses were a type. Competition caused the addition of dogs with hotter noses, faster on track, shorter ears, etc. The introduction of this "type" hound doesn't always mix too well with other bloodlines to give a complete balance and that could be what we are still seeing today.

people don't go find Lipper frozen semen for nothing.

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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John3:16

Thanks for all of your replies!
Yes I understand the importance of mouth and its something that is needed for the basic function of a hound.
I however wonder if some dogs are overrated because of there mouth? I mean obviously we know that there are. I guess what im trying to ask is I wonder how much of that has slipped over into breeding practices. In my short experience it seems that there are some lines that have a lot of chrome, look good, sound good, all the things that make a good first impression, or are traits that are easy to market. However they may be lacking in many of the much more important areas of intangibles, things like accuracy, consistency, hunt,smarts,balance, corporation, you know all that stuff.
Idk I'm pry over thinking it a little bit.

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

Fisher Ive seen what your talking about.I have some of the loudest dogs in this country in my back yard.They are for sure coontreers but they have there flaws.I know a local man who has had the same line of dogs for 20 years.He doesnt put mouth on the top of his breeding list.Instead he looks for natural early starters and coontreeing talent.I believe that is part of the reason his dogs are above average coondogs.Hope that makes sence.

My 1st female was all chop everything with an avg mouth. Now I didn't mind her not being louder than other dogs but the chop, chop chop had to go. She was very open on the ground and the only way you could tell she was treed was listening close and hear her triple chop locate. If you were walking and missed it you didn't know if she was treed or not. So I bred to a bawl mouth dog. That cross gave me a little bit of both on tree. Funny thing was the females all but one were all chop tree dogs and the males were bawl. Most had avg mouths but one was above avg. I kept an avg mouth bawl mouth tree dog. He was all bawl on the tree alone but anytime another dog came into him the would change over to chop. I've had two litters out of him( tow diff females) and seen this in all the male dogs. Most of the females are all chop with usally one out of each litter that is bawl like the males. Now the two litters have throw several dogs with super loud mouths and the females that are bawl mouth are loud but the chop mouth dogs are avg. The bawl mouth loud dogs are nice dogs but almost all the chop mouth females are culls.

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quote:

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Originally posted by River Birch Run
My 1st female was all chop everything with an avg mouth. Now I didn't mind her not being louder than other dogs but the chop, chop chop had to go. She was very open on the ground and the only way you could tell she was treed was listening close and hear her triple chop locate.

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