UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- LYME disease... health question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928416235)

LYME disease... health question

I have a 6 YR old dog, excellent hunter and best friend. Been dropping weight and very thirsty and lethargic for a couple weeks. Took her to vet, has lymes disease(even though she was vasccinated for it 6 months ago), and kidneys arent functioning too good. The big problem is her red blood cell count is at 12%, which should be 40-50%.
Pltelet count is 4400. should be 4 times that. They want to do a blood transfusion($700+) to stabilize her so she can have treatment.
I am inclined to give her the meds, antibiotics, etc to try to help, but if damage to kidneys is not fixable... its just a waste of time, and money.. Just hate to see my lil girl die if I can help it... any ideas on what to do??

__________________
Dave Miller
5634994055
NtCh Miller's Alone Again Hannah

700?!?!? For a blood transfusion?!?

Had one not to long ago that I thought was done for, 2 weeks of strong antibiotics and moving back to normal. Rough stuff!

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

I'm not a vet, but I would avoid the blood transfusion to much money, for what seems would be a short term fix.
I would try a treatment of doxycycline as a last ditch effort.
Its cost effective and a very effective against lymes.

Fyi once a dog is vaccinated for lymes, they will test positive for lymes, the fact your vet didn't tell you this makes me wonder if you should seek a second opinion.

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

The more I think about it... didn't you get her tested before the lyme vaccine? I have never heard of lymes moving that fast and causing that much damage in 6 months.

Hard to say with out knowing more, but I'm thinking a 2nd opinion would be a good idea, unless its pretty black and white.

Best of luck!!

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

no, i didnt have her tested for lymes before the vaccine. she was just getting her regular shots and rabies shot when the vet suggested i vaccinate for lyme and leptosporosis since its a hunting dog. they told me i could have her tested for lymes but i didnt figure it was worth it since she wasnt showing any signs of it.

__________________
Dave Miller
5634994055
NtCh Miller's Alone Again Hannah

no, i didnt have her tested for lymes before the vaccine. she was just getting her regular shots and rabies shot when the vet suggested i vaccinate for lyme and leptosporosis since its a hunting dog. they told me i could have her tested for lymes but i didnt figure it was worth it since she wasnt showing any signs of it.

__________________
Dave Miller
5634994055
NtCh Miller's Alone Again Hannah

The Lymes vaccine doesn't protect them from all strains of the desease. I think that it is only 50-75% effective.

Re: LYME disease... health question

quote:

---

Originally posted by qchounds
I have a 6 YR old dog, excellent hunter and best friend. Been dropping weight and very thirsty and lethargic for a couple weeks. Took her to vet, has lymes disease(even though she was vasccinated for it 6 months ago), and kidneys arent functioning too good. The big problem is her red blood cell count is at 12%, which should be 40-50%.
Pltelet count is 4400. should be 4 times that. They want to do a blood transfusion($700+) to stabilize her so she can have treatment.
I am inclined to give her the meds, antibiotics, etc to try to help, but if damage to kidneys is not fixable... its just a waste of time, and money.. Just hate to see my lil girl die if I can help it... any ideas on what to do??

---

__________________
OAKS POINT KENNELS

HOME OF

PKC CH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' OAKS POINT COON BUSTIN' BELLE HTX 2013 UKC Top 100 (May 2006-January 2017)

'PR' OAKS POINT STRIKE-EM OUT BEAU (May 2006-June 2016)

PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

CH 'PR' GOLD RUSH EXPO

'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

CH 'PR' CHERRY CREEK XBOX 2016 Treeing Walker Days King of Show

I have had a dog with Lymes and a dog with Ehrlichia and it sure dosen't sound like lymes to me. I'm not a Vet. but what you are describing sure doesn't sound like anything my dog had with Lymes. The one with ehrlichia acted like her brain was fried.

I checked her health record. She was vaccinated
last august. She developed a limp on a back leg in november, took her to vet and they said it was likely a pulled muscle- not a bone, joint problem. Limp went away but came back every couple months, same leg.
I know lymes can cause them to limp, so she may have had it for months.

She is doing about the same as yesterday- at least its not any worse. last night, her tongue was getting pale and she was drooling... today her tongue is more normal and not drooling much. Thanks for all the replies. I will update if her condition gets better or worse

__________________
Dave Miller
5634994055
NtCh Miller's Alone Again Hannah

quote:

---

Originally posted by qchounds
I checked her health record. She was vaccinated
last august. She developed a limp on a back leg in november, took her to vet and they said it was likely a pulled muscle- not a bone, joint problem. Limp went away but came back every couple months, same leg.
I know lymes can cause them to limp, so she may have had it for months.

She is doing about the same as yesterday- at least its not any worse. last night, her tongue was getting pale and she was drooling... today her tongue is more normal and not drooling much. Thanks for all the replies. I will update if her condition gets better or worse

---

__________________
OAKS POINT KENNELS

HOME OF

PKC CH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' OAKS POINT COON BUSTIN' BELLE HTX 2013 UKC Top 100 (May 2006-January 2017)

'PR' OAKS POINT STRIKE-EM OUT BEAU (May 2006-June 2016)

PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

CH 'PR' GOLD RUSH EXPO

'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

CH 'PR' CHERRY CREEK XBOX 2016 Treeing Walker Days King of Show

Treatment is the same for both. It doesn't matter which she has load her up on Doxyicycline for 4-6 weeks and forget about the tests.

the vet put her on 500 mg of amoxicillin 3 times a day. is that too weak of an antibiotic? should i see if they will change it to doxy?

__________________
Dave Miller
5634994055
NtCh Miller's Alone Again Hannah

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Treatment is the same for both. It doesn't matter which she has load her up on Doxyicycline for 4-6 weeks and forget about the tests.

---

wow that sounds a lot like leukemia to me, let us know how she makes out, best of luck to ya both

i didnt know lymes affects blood count? is this right

With doxycycline, you should see results in 2 to 3 days.
There both anti biotic any ways, at least with doxycycline, you will be covering all tick related diseases I believe.

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

The stating with the limp could be Lymes as it affects the joints,seems to be very painful to the dog. did you get one shot to begin with or two? Should be the first shot and another one 2 to 3 weeks later. Then one each year. At least that's what the Vets. up here have you do. We are in a heavy deer tick area.

she had 2 shot about 2 or 3 wks apart

__________________
Dave Miller
5634994055
NtCh Miller's Alone Again Hannah

Limp on back leg is one the first signs of eurlichia in the books

Re: Re: LYME disease... health question

quote:

---

Originally posted by jculler8
Sounds like Ehrlichia to me

---

she was tested for ehrlichia and it came back negative.

__________________
Dave Miller
5634994055
NtCh Miller's Alone Again Hannah

Doxycycline is the treatment of choice. Tetracycline is the second best. She might also need a couple of shots of Imazol. If your Vet put her on Amoxicillin, you need a new Vet. It doesn't mean much that the test for Erlichia came back negative. If her RBC was that much out of normal range, then she has either Erlichia or Lymes. As I said before, you need to get her on a high dose Doxycyclin. Do a search for Erlichia on the interweb and check out the symptoms and treatment.

Amoxicillin will not cover ehrlichia it is a rickettsia , between a virus and bacteria they reproduce only intercellarally . It is also not effective for Lymes the spirochette reproduce in connective tissue (joints , heart ect) . It is nearly impossible to kill them all because of this . Your dog will test positive for Lymes after having the vaccine because of the antibodies that have built up . It can be a false positive or actually positive like someone said there are multiple strains . There are also multiple strains of ehrliciosis .
Doxycycline has proven to be the most effective against both , many strains have proven to be antibiotic resistant to both . You will need atleast a 30 day dose . Even if dog acts better in just a few days . You will also need to avoid any steriods for quite a long time . Small amounts of rickettsia or spirochettes hid intercellarally or in the inter-connective tissues that the dose of antibiotics didn't kill when given immune response blockers they can rproduce like crazy and your dog will start symptoms all over agian . Where they live in the body is why it is nearly impossible to ever fully get rid of them depending on what stage the disease is in .
Be sure to give probiotics along with doxy to keep the good bacteria in the gut it will kill out both good and bad . This will help your dogs immune system to stay strong (pills or active culture yogart , vet also has script)
Blood ... there is a blood builder available from the vet and I cannot recall the name . Regaurdless supplement a good quality dog food with beef liver . It is possible for dogs to have co-infections and multiple disorders and yours maybe in this catagory there are many different tick borne illinesses out there and then they can catch many of the same things we can . Also don't be
surprised if after feeling better in a few days there is a re-lapse this can be when there is a major die off of the bad and your dogs body is trying to detox .
To everybody - put your dogs on the Nexgard flea and chew . It is like the comfortis pill but for ticks too . It is the best defence we have right now .

Good luck
Jen

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

depending on what stage ehrlichiosis is in you can also have false negatives

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER