UKC Forums - Dog Fighting Question

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Posted by Ol Grump on 03-31-2015 06:40 AM:

Dog Fighting Question

Walking into a tree, you hear 2 dogs fighting, get there, bluetick has redbone by the neck. Which dog/dogs get scratched?

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Posted by Redwood Hounds on 03-31-2015 06:54 AM:

Both. As you do not know the aggressor. Scratch both dogs involved.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 03-31-2015 12:28 PM:

The Bluetick, nothing in the rules about getting scratched for getting bit.
Scratch the agressor.

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Posted by HOBO on 03-31-2015 12:49 PM:

Rules say scratch the aggressor, in this case you don't know who started it so both should be scratched. Maybe the Redbone met someone would wouldn't take his crap any longer.

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Posted by AndyMiller on 03-31-2015 01:09 PM:

shoot the bluetick

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Posted by damon shivers on 03-31-2015 01:20 PM:

I'm a bluetick guy

And I say bluetick go if I hit you and you hit me back and only you are seen you are in trouble so I say bluetick sense he had redbone by the neck why scratch the redbone as far as you see he hasn't done anything wrong not saying redbone didn't start it and bluetick finished it but you 9 lyrics see bluetick on top of redbone!

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Posted by wakenda creek b on 03-31-2015 01:34 PM:

Scratch the blue dog. Redbone isn't showing aggression. The redbone may have started it but that happens.

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Posted by RLenhart on 03-31-2015 01:42 PM:

I have to say I'm scratching both if it's me. I think it's the rule when you don't know who started it plus I don't see most dogs going that far if there wasn't some agression from the other dog. The bluedog wouldn't have been the first dog Iv'e ever seen that's fine until somebody want's to start something then they clean the floor with the other dog.

Posted by Outback1 on 03-31-2015 02:11 PM:

usually the man who owns the aggressive dog knows it, if he would just man up and say so, instead of saying "he aint never done that before" when in fact he knows the dog is ill. I would say scratch both unless the handler man's up and take his scratch like a big boy and admit he has a ill dog. imo

Posted by msinc on 03-31-2015 02:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Outback1
usually the man who owns the aggressive dog knows it, if he would just man up and say so, instead of saying "he aint never done that before" when in fact he knows the dog is ill. I would say scratch both unless the handler man's up and take his scratch like a big boy and admit he has a ill dog. imo

First thing we all learn in the nite hunts is that absolutely NOBODY has a mean dog!!!! In this case, as described, both dogs get scratched. The fight wasn't seen, so there is no way to identify the "aggressor." Both dogs are involved, so both dogs get the hammer. As previously posted, we have no way of knowing whether or not the red dog met his match or the blue dog was really the true aggressor. The main thing is that since we don't know we take them both out so it doesn't happen to someone else's dog later in the hunt.
In "The Advisor" there is a blurb about "Remember, though, you only scratch the aggressor {if the aggressor is known} regardless of any retaliation." This implies that if one dog jumps on another or otherwise acts in an aggressive way causing the "victim" dog to fight back you only scratch the first one. But, you would have to be there and see it...otherwise there is no way to know for sure.
This is why a dog has to be "caught" and written up more than once to be barred....if a dog was just a victim of circumstances" {in this case possibly the redbone, who knows possibly the bluetick} he gets one scratch, but if he is truly not the aggressor then that should be the only one and he's got nothing to worry about.

Posted by blackflagginit on 03-31-2015 02:46 PM:

if its my cast, the bluetick is scratched and the redbone is under the microscope for the rest of the night (just in case).

we only saw BOTH of the requirements for scratching for fighting from 1 dog here.

if the bluetick isn't truly mean, one scratch isn't going to do much damage. if it was the redbone who started it and just got a "come to jesus meetin" for its trouble, then it will prob do something else while under that microscope that night to get a free ticket home too.

I have been there and had to scratch my OWN dog, knowing without a doubt it wasn't the one who started it. I also knew that it wasn't that big a deal because it wasn't likely to EVER get another scratch for it again. It never did btw.

our hounds are supposed to be like monks. even in the face of aggression they are not supposed to fight back. Hard to do sometimes but that's just the way it is.

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Posted by msinc on 03-31-2015 03:12 PM:

"we only saw BOTH of the requirements for scratching for fighting from 1 dog here."

You don't have to see dogs fighting to know there is a fight going on...just as UKC says, "you also don't have to see a dog leaving the tree to minus him, you can plainly hear what went down." In this cast a dog fight was heard. No aggressor can be identified. I am sure the handler of the red dog wished it could be different too.

"if the bluetick isn't truly mean, one scratch isn't going to do much damage. if it was the redbone who started it and just got a "come to jesus meetin" for its trouble, then it will prob do something else while under that microscope that night to get a free ticket home too."

Why give a possibly mean aggressive dog a chance to do it again in the same cast????

As a MOH for many years, in excess of 30, this exact same scenario has come before me 3 times. Once, the "redbone" handler took it all the way to a formal complaint and without exception UKC ruled in my favor. I think the message here is "get the mean dogs out."
To everyone that believes only the blue dog should get the hammer...exactly what part of "if aggressor is not known" don't you fellas get?????

Posted by Stan Ferrell on 03-31-2015 03:43 PM:

It is important to know what cast you are on.
1 The let them sort it out cast.
2 let them withdraw cast.
3 I didn't hear nuthin cast.
4 I didn't see nuthin cast.
5 or my favorite, well since we didn't see who the aggressor was, we'll just watch'm close the rest of the nite cast.

Posted by buck brush on 03-31-2015 04:26 PM:

blackflagginit

if I'm in your cast you will be scratching them both no mater my dog your dog or Joe blows dog, because that is what the rules say to do.
as a judge I have scratched dogs for fighting and have not been at the tree, when 2 dogs are called treed and they are the only ones there and a fight breaks out you are gone in my cast, I do not blame a dog for protecting its self, but I hate a mean dog, I think not only the dog should be bared after 3 times so should the handler.

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Posted by joey on 03-31-2015 04:33 PM:

I think some of us need to read the rule and think about it for a while.

Both are scratched, some of you are assuming the red dog didn't start the fight because he is loosing? There have been lots of bullies get beat up.

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Posted by Tony Dominguez on 03-31-2015 04:47 PM:

I think some of us need to be there too See it... I was on that cast & there wasn't a dog fight that happened, however most folks are good about spreading rumors... After the walker dog left those 2 dogs treed 1 more & treed for over any hour without an off bark, then walked next to each other the 1.2 miles back to the truck...

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Posted by T Felderman on 03-31-2015 04:53 PM:

Re: Dog Fighting Question

quote:
Originally posted by Ol Grump
Walking into a tree, you hear 2 dogs fighting, get there, bluetick has redbone by the neck. Which dog/dogs get scratched?

We were talking about this same scenario at the last hunt I was at. Just about every opinion varied. Allen????????????????????????????

Posted by dchartt on 03-31-2015 05:06 PM:

Meanwhile the walker was in the bankground blowin the top out with the grease!

Posted by buck brush on 03-31-2015 05:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tony Dominguez
I think some of us need to be there too See it... I was on that cast & there wasn't a dog fight that happened, however most folks are good about spreading rumors... After the walker dog left those 2 dogs treed 1 more & treed for over any hour without an off bark, then walked next to each other the 1.2 miles back to the truck...

well tell us what really went on????

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-31-2015 05:24 PM:

Scratch em both if you dont see it happen. To bad tough break for the one thats not as mean as the other one. Still 2 people are going to the house.

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Posted by Tony Dominguez on 03-31-2015 05:33 PM:

The redbone treed a coon about 30 seconds or so ahead of them, all dogs treed. As we get there the blue tick comes to the redbones side of a small tree & blows at him, I never scratched him because they weren't fighting. I handled mine before he could get in any issues because he's a 1 year old & doing **** nice. I can't scratch a dog for fighting because it wasn't fighting, now The guy in the cast that was pushing to scratch these 2 dogs would have been left huntin solo for something that didn't happen. Take in consideration that I've hunted with all 3 of these dogs several times & have never seen an ill hair out of none of them. I guess when you go to enough of these hunts the BS talk from folks that only hunt about 3-4 times a year but set at the club house & talk are normally the folks that start the rumors

Posted by buck brush on 03-31-2015 05:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tony Dominguez
The redbone treed a coon about 30 seconds or so ahead of them, all dogs treed. As we get there the blue tick comes to the redbones side of a small tree & blows at him, I never scratched him because they weren't fighting. I handled mine before he could get in any issues because he's a 1 year old & doing **** nice. I can't scratch a dog for fighting because it wasn't fighting, now The guy in the cast that was pushing to scratch these 2 dogs would have been left huntin solo for something that didn't happen. Take in consideration that I've hunted with all 3 of these dogs several times & have never seen an ill hair out of none of them. I guess when you go to enough of these hunts the BS talk from folks that only hunt about 3-4 times a year but set at the club house & talk are normally the folks that start the rumors

OK now is blowing at a dog showing interference and aggression ?? and what happened to the blue dog having the red dog by the neck that never took place??

Posted by Tony Dominguez on 03-31-2015 05:46 PM:

No not at all, it never interfered with my dog treeing... & having him by the neck never happened

Posted by JiM on 03-31-2015 05:53 PM:

Re: Dog Fighting Question

quote:
Originally posted by Ol Grump
Walking into a tree, you hear 2 dogs fighting, get there, bluetick has redbone by the neck. Which dog/dogs get scratched?

A very simple question with a very simple, one word answer. And yet we got 5 saying scratch the Bluetick and 5 giving the right answer. So 50% are wrong. Not good.

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Posted by Tony Dominguez on 03-31-2015 06:01 PM:

Jim I felt if the bluetick would have done anything but blow on a small tree it would have been scratched. He never did so I didn't scratch him

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