UKC Forums - Score this?

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Posted by jmart on 03-14-2015 07:47 PM:

Score this?

Three dogs a&b are treed dog c split treed behind em as we're walking in, handler of c gos and handles dog and proceeds to a b tree. Score tree then head to dog c tree, when we arrive the handler says this isn't where he was! the dog broke the little tree limb he had him tied too and was hung up on a downed log about 30 yds away, so he walks the dog back to where he said he was treed ties him again, the dog had the coon! How would you score it?

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Posted by joey on 03-14-2015 07:51 PM:

This same situation was ruled on by UKC a couple of months ago. The dog is minused. They say that once a dog has been declared treed he must remain at that tree until it is scored not matter the situation. If the dog broke his leash he should have gotten back on the tree. Then there would not have been a problem.

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Posted by jmart on 03-14-2015 07:57 PM:

I agree with you Joey, the handler was the judge and he plussed it up! The other handler and I didn't push the subject though because the hunt was over and it didn't change the outcome. I told him I would suggest tying him up a little different next time lol

Posted by V.R. Eakins on 03-14-2015 08:06 PM:

score this

Minus

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-14-2015 08:52 PM:

I think if 5 is up. Tree should be scored. Then call time. They dont have to bark. They dont have to do crap once that 5 is up if you have em leased.

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Posted by BLACKCREEKKENAL on 03-14-2015 09:48 PM:

Minus

Minuse he left most would have got back on tree sounds to me he was unshure anyways

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Posted by Ky Show Girl on 03-14-2015 10:05 PM:

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Posted by john Duemmer on 03-14-2015 11:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
This same situation was ruled on by UKC a couple of months ago. The dog is minused. They say that once a dog has been declared treed he must remain at that tree until it is scored not matter the situation. If the dog broke his leash he should have gotten back on the tree. Then there would not have been a problem.

I believe this is correct in UKC.
I had a similar situation in a $kc. cast, we had split up to handle dogs, when we arrived at the last tree the dog was missing but half the lead was there tied to the tree, dog came back in a couple minutes later. $kc.s ruling was to score the tree.

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Posted by J I Allen on 03-15-2015 07:01 PM:

You said it didn't affect the outcome. Was that just your cast or the entire hunt. How many other cast hunted and how did it affect the other cast's placements in the hunt. Sometimes these things affect more than just the cast you are hunting.

Posted by Billy George on 03-15-2015 07:28 PM:

does the fact that the dog was handled and then left come in to play?

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Posted by msinc on 03-15-2015 08:58 PM:

On the one hand it seems like the judge would have to have a dog there showing him the tree to score but maybe not in this case...the dog was there, he did his 5 minutes and was ordered to be handled. He was handled and showed somebody where the tree was so he technically did his job up to that point. As stated in a previous post at the point which the dog is handled he really don't have to do anything else.
I could be wrong but I don't see anything in the rules to prevent the judge and rest of cast to go to the tree and score it accordingly. Common sense says "how would we know where to go in the first place if the dog didn't show us to start with. The handler now just has to recover the dog to avoid being scratched for delaying the cast.

Edit: "They say that once a dog has been declared treed he must remain at that tree until it is scored not matter the situation"

Who exactly is "they" that says all this???? It is not in the UKC rules anywhere that I see.

Posted by joey on 03-15-2015 10:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
Edit: "They say that once a dog has been declared treed he must remain at that tree until it is scored not matter the situation"

Who exactly is "they" that says all this???? It is not in the UKC rules anywhere that I see.

"They" was UKC. They stated on here as an official interpretation.

Once the dog is treed it must remain there to be scored.The problem with UKC is there is no common sense rule. Just a rule saying we have to go by their interpretation of the rules.

Posted by jmart on 03-15-2015 10:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by J I Allen
You said it didn't affect the outcome. Was that just your cast or the entire hunt. How many other cast hunted and how did it affect the other cast's placements in the hunt. Sometimes these things affect more than just the cast you are hunting.

There was no other effects because this dog did not win the cast, and it did not change the score of the dog that won our cast

Posted by msinc on 03-16-2015 12:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
"They" was UKC. They stated on here as an official interpretation.

Once the dog is treed it must remain there to be scored.The problem with UKC is there is no common sense rule. Just a rule saying we have to go by their interpretation of the rules.

If "they" is U.K.C. then they don't say it in the rules and the rules is what we have to go by... I asked because it has been my experience that "they" say a lot of things. Most of which are self serving, untrue and have nothing whatsoever to do with U.K.C.
Let me ask this...if dogs tree and hold it for 5 minutes, then we go into the tree, the judge is satisfied with the way they are treed and we are told to handle the dogs by the judge...so we leash all the dogs to the tree and start to shine. All the dogs curl up on the ground and either just lay there and do nothing or maybe even go to sleep...what happens??? They all get minused???? Because if they do then "they" or somebody is going to have to show me this rule.
There is just nothing at all in the rules regarding the actions of the dog during the time he is "handled" {leashed at the tree and waiting to be scored.} I have never had a dog do any of the above...leave or lay down and go to sleep and wouldn't have one that did, but the cold hard fact is that there is no rule that states what they are to be doing when handled. There is one that says they can't fight but best I can find that one is about it.

Posted by joey on 03-16-2015 01:21 AM:

UKC has stated that what ever interpretation they give on here is an official interpretation of the rules. A dog has to stay at the tree until it is scored. It can lie down after it is handled if it wants to as long as it does not leave.

It was the exact same situation that UKC ruled on. Only the dog was gone instead found hung up away from the tree. UKC has said it many times if they are treed they have to stay. If you go and handle your dog and he jerks out of your hand and takes off he is minused. He is not safe until the tree has been scored.

Posted by Greg Burks on 03-16-2015 02:02 AM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by joey
UKC has stated that what ever interpretation they give on here is an official interpretation of the rules. A dog has to stay at the tree until it is scored. It can lie down after it is handled if it wants to as long as it does not leave.

It was the exact same situation that UKC ruled on. Only the dog was gone instead found hung up away from the tree. UKC has said it many times if they are treed they have to stay. If you go and handle your dog and he jerks out of your hand and takes off he is minused. He is not safe until the tree has been scored. [/Q. UOTE.
Whats the five minute rule for then ?

Posted by SouthForkWalker on 03-16-2015 05:58 AM:

I would have to say minus. That being said I have a female that was really bad about going back to tree if the coon didn't come out. We worked and worked on it. Now after she has been leashed she will not tree on same tree. Turn her loose and she is gone. Best handling dog around tree I have ever been around.

Posted by cbcoonskinner on 03-17-2015 07:09 PM:

Minus,Bad Handling!!handler tied dog to a bad twig or used a bad lead. not dogs fault for not being tied up good. no way for anybody on the cast to know exactly where dog was treed except the handler that handled him at that tree.

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Posted by Mark V. on 03-17-2015 10:03 PM:

A little common sence goes a lomg way!!

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