UKC Forums - What traits do you look for in a pup?

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Posted by Gdcwalker45 on 02-17-2015 03:04 AM:

What traits do you look for in a pup?

What traits do you look for in a pup? And what traits have you seen in some of your best dogs when they were pups? I have a two month old walker pup right now that I really have high hopes for. She is full of energy always wanting to get into stuff and using her nose a lot. She's wanted to chase the cats we have outside since she got big enough to run. They're used to dogs so no danger of them hurting her and ruining her I don't think. I'm hoping that won't hurt her by wanting to chase everything by sight. She seems to be smart as a tack already got her going in her kennel on command along with climbing up into a carrying crate. I've been working on getting her to sit, she's about to grasp that. Don't wanna put much pressure on her and burn her out though.

Posted by msinc on 02-17-2015 10:02 AM:

The number one thing you don't want is shyness. I have never seen one that was shy acting amount to anything, As far as what you want that young...I like to see them go off on their own a little when I walk them in the woods. The ones I have had that turned out the best started exploring a little when they were pretty young, like less than 6 months old. Wanting to chase something is not bad but doesn't really mean much. You will just have to be careful because the pup might start running tracks early and it will usually be a deer. Be prepared to stop the dog if it does get on one. One or two free runs on a deer and it can take you a lot of effort to get them to stop if at all.
You cant really burn out a pup with basic command training. Just keep it short and if the dog has a meltdown put it back in the kennel and try again in a few days. Best of luck and good hunting.

Posted by ole hoss on 02-17-2015 10:41 AM:

I like to see one interested at a young age. If its running loose it shouldnt be in the yard at 4-5 months old it should spend more time exploreing the woods than on the porch. To me they must have the want to. I dont care if mine is running deer or what ever as long as their doing something. Want too is my biggest thing with a pup. They have to have the want to.

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Posted by Fisher13 on 02-17-2015 03:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
The number one thing you don't want is shyness. I have never seen one that was shy acting amount to anything, As far as what you want that young...I like to see them go off on their own a little when I walk them in the woods. The ones I have had that turned out the best started exploring a little when they were pretty young, like less than 6 months old. Wanting to chase something is not bad but doesn't really mean much. You will just have to be careful because the pup might start running tracks early and it will usually be a deer. Be prepared to stop the dog if it does get on one. One or two free runs on a deer and it can take you a lot of effort to get them to stop if at all.
You cant really burn out a pup with basic command training. Just keep it short and if the dog has a meltdown put it back in the kennel and try again in a few days. Best of luck and good hunting.

With the up most respect I must call bull, plenty of quirky hounds go on to make nice hounds in the hands of the right trainers. A lot of Fox hounds in the 20s and 30s were bred to be stranger shy, to avoid getting stolen. This is still prevalent in certain lines today. It does not effect there abilities in the woods what so ever. It simply means that they won't hunt but for one man and or take longer to transition into a new home. Lots of guys believe this, because some one wrote it in a book once.

To answer the ops question, Drive and Brains are the 2 most important parts of a hound. However don't confuse working intelligence with instinctual. Just cause a hound can't learn to sit, don't mean it can track or vice versa. That being said I do prefer a high level of working intelligence however they must also have the instincts to go with it. I sometimes wonder if these two conflict.

Many more traits will be needed but at the end of the day if your patient and give the pup the time it is needed, most will tree coon.
Worn boots go a long ways.

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Posted by msinc on 02-17-2015 05:39 PM:

I "must call bull" back...where do you see the word "quirky" in my post????? Maybe before you jump you might want to make sure we reckon "shy" the same. I am talking about a dog you cannot get your hands on, one that would rather be hiding in the dog house than out running around because a person is there.
When I was your age I really thought I could fix every problem every dog had too, then I grew up, got some experience and got over it. You will too, whether you want to or not, all in due time.
Your universal advice of "all ya gotta do is just hunt the dog more" is worn out here...you might want to try dreaming up something different to tell everyone that post about training.

Posted by RLenhart on 02-17-2015 06:02 PM:

I'm with you on the shyness msinc. He probably is a little bit right on back in the day the old timers liked them shy. I know my grandfather did but I could never understand that. When I look at a litter of real young pups the pup i'm almost always going to take home is the one that made it hard to check out the rest of the pups because it had it's self positioned to get the attention every time i reach in the box. The pup that's cowering in the corner is still going to be doing that when i leave because I don't want it.

Posted by pamjohnson on 02-17-2015 06:07 PM:

shy

it may well be able to make a nice coonhound. not for me either. there is alot of diff levels of shyness or quirkyness. the real shy ones or real quirky stuff is not for me.

Posted by Gdcwalker45 on 02-17-2015 06:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RLenhart
I'm with you on the shyness msinc. He probably is a little bit right on back in the day the old timers liked them shy. I know my grandfather did but I could never understand that. When I look at a litter of real young pups the pup i'm almost always going to take home is the one that made it hard to check out the rest of the pups because it had it's self positioned to get the attention every time i reach in the box. The pup that's cowering in the corner is still going to be doing that when i leave because I don't want it.

Picked up a cur pup that was doing what you stated seemed shy at first. But I picked him because he had looks. I'll not make that mistake again. He's almost 2 now and seems like he's finally coming out of it some. I've kept him longer than I should have. Everytime I'm about to get rid of him he'll do something to make me think he's got it in him to be a decent squirell dog though.

Posted by RLenhart on 02-17-2015 06:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Gdcwalker45
Picked up a cur pup that was doing what you stated seemed shy at first. But I picked him because he had looks. I'll not make that mistake again. He's almost 2 now and seems like he's finally coming out of it some. I've kept him longer than I should have. Everytime I'm about to get rid of him he'll do something to make me think he's got it in him to be a decent squirell dog though.

My dad and I had a pair of curs, one shy, one the most friendliest out going dog you could ever meet. End of story; the outgoing one is lying at my feet as i write this, the shy one is gone. He DID make a squirel dog. We gave him to a friend and he likes him, but the brave out going one is just a little better.

Posted by critter on 02-17-2015 07:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
I "must call bull" back...where do you see the word "quirky" in my post????? Maybe before you jump you might want to make sure we reckon "shy" the same. I am talking about a dog you cannot get your hands on, one that would rather be hiding in the dog house than out running around because a person is there.
When I was your age I really thought I could fix every problem every dog had too, then I grew up, got some experience and got over it. You will too, whether you want to or not, all in due time.
Your universal advice of "all ya gotta do is just hunt the dog more" is worn out here...you might want to try dreaming up something different to tell everyone that post about training.

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Posted by Fisher13 on 02-17-2015 07:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
I "must call bull" back...where do you see the word "quirky" in my post????? Maybe before you jump you might want to make sure we reckon "shy" the same. I am talking about a dog you cannot get your hands on, one that would rather be hiding in the dog house than out running around because a person is there.
When I was your age I really thought I could fix every problem every dog had too, then I grew up, got some experience and got over it. You will too, whether you want to or not, all in due time.
Your universal advice of "all ya gotta do is just hunt the dog more" is worn out here...you might want to try dreaming up something different to tell everyone that post about training.

You said you never saw a shy dog amount to anything.

I'm not sure what you define as shy, but a dog that does not want to be petted by a stranger I would call quirky or shy.

If the dog won't come out of the box or let you get your hands on him, the dog clearly hasn't accepted you as a friend or pack leader. Plain and simple. Is it a desirable trait Idk, I would say probably not no one likes to see a child be bitten by a fear biter. Does it effect there ability to track and tree. I would say there completely unrelated.

I have a friend who hunts coyote, he uses an old line of trig hounds, he says everyone is human shy,but they will never back down from a yote,even one on one. I have a female that was extremely quirky and shy as a pup, but she was an all natural in the woods. Just now around 2 years old will she let strangers pet her. Correct me if I'm wrong but it is much easier to socialize a dog and take them to tractor supply once a week then it is to teach a dog to tree coon.

Im not saying it's desirable I'm just saying a dog being human shy has no effect on there ability to tree coon. A dog not having enough nose, or being dumb, or having physical defects, will surely impact it's ability to tree coon.

I apologizing for derailing the thread, but I would argue a dog not having enough nose will have more of an impact on a dogs ability to tree coon, then temperament. I would also add that I was told that shy dogs tend to be dead loners in the woods,I have also seen that in the line I hunt. This imo is a trade off I will make any day of the week, but that's just me.

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

Posted by Fisher13 on 02-17-2015 08:03 PM:

I mean no disrespect minsc, I just strongly disagree since I have had first hand experience with this. It seems a lot of females can often be human shy and will need there confidence built up, Idk if that's true or not just seems that way in the few hounds I have known.

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 02-17-2015 08:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Fisher13
With the up most respect I must call bull, plenty of quirky hounds go on to make nice hounds in the hands of the right trainers.

At a much lower percentage than pups that are outgoing, and with way more effort.

I just gave away a backwards pup, out of two coon dogs that really like. Had him for a week and still did not feel comfortable enough to turn him loose in the yard or at the farm for the simple fact I didnt think I could get my hands on him again. I am a busy man, I own one business, manage another, two small kids, and hounds to hunt. I dont have time to spend 3 hours a day for a month just to get a dog to not be scared of his shadow, just so I can than see if he is going to be any good or not. Just to have him revert back to his old self every time he is introduced into a new situation.

No thanks on a backwards pup

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Posted by RLenhart on 02-17-2015 08:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
At a much lower percentage than pups that are outgoing, and with way more effort.

I just gave away a backwards pup, out of two coon dogs that really like. Had him for a week and still did not feel comfortable enough to turn him loose in the yard or at the farm for the simple fact I didnt think I could get my hands on him again. I am a busy man, I own one business, manage another, two small kids, and hounds to hunt. I dont have time to spend 3 hours a day for a month just to get a dog to not be scared of his shadow, just so I can than see if he is going to be any good or not. Just to have him revert back to his old self every time he is introduced into a new situation.

No thanks on a backwards pup

X2!
I have no doubt some of them can be turned into coon dogs but i've soured on dogs that are shy enough to jerk back when you try to pet them. By what iv'e seen that shyness usually does translate to the woods. JMO

Posted by bobbycagle1 on 02-17-2015 08:39 PM:

How many of y'all still look at the roof of a pups mouth to indicate their intelligence?

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Posted by RLenhart on 02-17-2015 08:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bobbycagle1
How many of y'all still look at the roof of a pups mouth to indicate their intelligence?

I do look for a black roofed mouth because I was taught to. I really don't know if it matters but yes I do look.

Posted by breezyoaks on 02-17-2015 09:14 PM:

hahhaaa......

quote:
Originally posted by bobbycagle1
How many of y'all still look at the roof of a pups mouth to indicate their intelligence?

SILLY YOU....THAT ONLY WORKS IN BEAGLES....LOL

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Posted by bobbycagle1 on 02-17-2015 10:01 PM:

That's the first thing I do. The old timers swore by it.

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Posted by POTOMAC on 02-17-2015 10:09 PM:

There are two different kinds of shy a man shy dog you might Aswell cull cause he is never coming out of it !!!! Never !!! A dog that it perceived as shy cause he just doesn't come up as fast as others are is more reserved. Before taking up with one person are a few is not a bad thing but there are other things to look for !!! A dog Randall Coleman had real tree Pete coon dog period and better than most and I mean better then 99% of the ones breathing today was just like that he would go back in the bushes on the tie just wouldn't come to a few !! We crossed James grice Bo dog on a female of mine and there was a pup that showed that same trait and James jumped on him and he is showing to have a lot of abilities of his grandfather Pete and I wouldn't have looked twice at the pup for that but that just goes to show how much homework and how valuable it is to know parents grandparents etc if possible on any cross !!! But gain a man shy dog is totally different and should be culled immediatly !! They will never change !!

Posted by rthompson on 02-18-2015 03:13 AM:

The best dog i even snaped my leash on only a handful of people could catch if that ithink 3 people he would accually go around somebody and load hiself in the truck he wasnt shy with me cause he knew he was my dog and my girlfriend could catch him and the guy that i hunted with all the time but nobody else and dont hgo near his pen. i loved that dog.

Posted by Fisher13 on 02-18-2015 03:35 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by rthompson
The best dog i even snaped my leash on only a handful of people could catch if that ithink 3 people he would accually go around somebody and load hiself in the truck he wasnt shy with me cause he knew he was my dog and my girlfriend could catch him and the guy that i hunted with all the time but nobody else and dont hgo near his pen. i loved that dog.

Like I was saying

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

Posted by Greg Burks on 02-18-2015 04:01 AM:

I would like to here more about the black in the roof of the pups mouth....seriously

Posted by rthompson on 02-18-2015 04:08 AM:

All mine have it i seem to get along with them better was told a long time ago black on the roof of their mouth and dark eyes but but the most accurate ones ive had have more copper colored eyes. was also told that a dog with all pink mouth will be rough but dont know that thats true at all.

Posted by bobbycagle1 on 02-18-2015 04:28 AM:

I was always told that black roof mouth indicated that the hound would be smart. Pink or white roof meant the dog wouldn't have any sense. Idk. The old timers around here swore by it! I always look at their mouth before I buy a pup. I've turned down pups that didn't have a black roofed mouth. Just the way I was raised, I don't think there's nothing scientific about it though?

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Waldron, Arkansas
(479) 207-3789

Posted by GLANCY'S 7 MILE on 02-18-2015 06:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Fisher13
Correct me if I'm wrong but it is much easier to socialize a dog and take them to tractor supply once a week then it is to teach a dog to tree coon.

Im not saying it's desirable I'm just saying a dog being human shy has no effect on there ability to tree coon. A dog not having enough nose, or being dumb, or having physical defects, will surely impact it's ability to tree coon.

I agree. I've seen it first hand. Like Fisher13 said it's not a desirable trait, BUT just because a pup or dog is shy or timid doesn't mean that it can't be a FLAT OUT COON DOG. I've got a buddy who's been breeding hounds for years and some of his pups have been shy/timid around people, yet they still tree coons, win hunts, finish to GRANDNITE, and reproduce as well. I'm not saying all shy dogs make it, but believe me some shy ones do.

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