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-- ####Serious Question####******* (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928408627)

####Serious Question####*******

Looking at all these posts about dogs loosing track power in all breeds and this and that, but how many people are willing to give up the all grand pedigrees and high powered tree dogs that rack up the points during the summer to get back to those good old roots of coonhunting? I mean seriously, if too much tree is a problem why breed to an overpowering tree dog? How many people are really willing to breed their nice females to a consistant night in and night out country coondog that has the groceries when parked? One that still has the qualities of the dogs before the "Tree Dog Era".

The way I see it we as coonhunters need to try to fix the problem or quit fussing about it. I don't see too many people trying to do that.

I could be wrong, but maybe it's all just about people blowing smoke or trying to make another man's dog look bad. We may not even have a problem with too much tree.

There are so many ways to look at it, and I want to see how other people feel about all of this. I'm still pretty young and I've only been coonhunting for about 10 years now, so I don't have any first hand knowledge of the dogs of yesteryear, but the way everybody talks they seemed to show coons on a consistent basis. I can't say that about the majority of the dogs I've owned in 10 years.

With all of this said I've got a nice 5 year old blue male that is as consistant as they come. He will show you coon after coon and rarely misses or makes mistakes. No all grand pedigree, heck I've never even heard of the dogs in his pedigree until you get way back to Sparetime Spanky on his bottom side. I believe Spanky may be the only titled dog in his pedigree. He hunts out 3 circles, 1st 300-500 yards 2nd 800-1000 yards 3rd 1200-1400 yards. If you don't put him in the box after that he'll cross the state line if he needs to to find a coon. He doesn't have an overpowering mouth and he is hard to call in company because of it. He'll check a tree before he settles in on it and he doesnt rattle off 120 BPM. He'll probably never win the world hunt, but he can sure put the hides on the barn. How many people are really looking for a dog like this to hunt and/or breed to?

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Preston Chadwell
276-275-3615

serious question

I have a clover breed walker..I could use your post about your blue dog to describe him....don't comp hunt alot but when I do he wins more times than not...my kind of dog..

Yea I rarely hit the nitehunts. I went on a little stint where I tried to finish him to nite ch once. Never could seem to get the first he needs so I quit putting money in it. I figured as long as he suits me through the week that's all that matters. I'll never sell him. He is definitely my kind of dog. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to find a female with the same qualities to breed to him. I'd sure love to have another just like him, maybe with a little more mouth haha.

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Preston Chadwell
276-275-3615

I believe the root of the problem lies with the way nite hunt's are set up they are suited to the hotter nose pop up type of dog's!! I'm not a old veteran but I do know back in 80's and before there seemed to be more blueticks winning and some of the older gentleman that I have talked with said that extra hr of hunting really made the dogs with nose and track power shine! so as the kennel clubs making hunts shorter there is going to be more of the pop up type of dogs its what wins in the hunts but I do believe there will be the tradionist that will not breed for the night hunts and still breed for the track power the ones that you can tree coon in feb. on a 0 deg night there just not going to be easy to find! I traveled 10 hrs to pick up a pup last fall that has not titles and was from two country coondogs that can get it done!

I believe the root of the problem lies with the way nite hunt's are set up they are suited to the hotter nose pop up type of dog's!! I'm not a old veteran but I do know back in 80's and before there seemed to be more blueticks winning and some of the older gentleman that I have talked with said that extra hr of hunting really made the dogs with nose and track power shine! so as the kennel clubs making hunts shorter there is going to be more of the pop up type of dogs its what wins in the hunts but I do believe there will be the tradionist that will not breed for the night hunts and still breed for the track power the ones that you can tree coon in feb. on a 0 deg night there just not going to be easy to find! I traveled 10 hrs to pick up a pup last fall that has not titles and was from two country coondogs that can get it done!

I wonder why they cut the hunt time down? It's not like ukc does a final cast or anything at the local level

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Preston Chadwell
276-275-3615

No offense but if you cant finish one to ntch. It aint much of a consistent dog.

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Michael Ghorley

quote:

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Originally posted by jwalters
I believe the root of the problem lies with the way nite hunt's are set up they are suited to the hotter nose pop up type of dog's!! I'm not a old veteran but I do know back in 80's and before there seemed to be more blueticks winning and some of the older gentleman that I have talked with said that extra hr of hunting really made the dogs with nose and track power shine! so as the kennel clubs making hunts shorter there is going to be more of the pop up type of dogs its what wins in the hunts but I do believe there will be the tradionist that will not breed for the night hunts and still breed for the track power the ones that you can tree coon in feb. on a 0 deg night there just not going to be easy to find! I traveled 10 hrs to pick up a pup last fall that has not titles and was from two country coondogs that can get it done!

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A coon dawg will win a lot more than they lose !!!! Im in thin coon and carry some pretty good track dgs and looking to better the stock we have !!! First problem is to many people looking at papers instead caliber of dog there breeding!!!! We Burke it as coonhunters and only we can fix it !!! The rules haven't change !!!!!! The way coonhunters have changed there dogs to try to win more has changed !!!!! Can't blame nobody but yourself if your breeding for flavor of the month or off so and SOS word!!! Do your homework and if your bitch isn't what you have always don't breed her !!! And start doing your homework before choosing a male !! Myself I pleasure a lot more than I ever could comp hunt and I sure wouldn't follow a lot of these dogs in my woods very long !!! Jmo

I was going to say you have some points there, but then Joe posted, and now I have to say it's mainly people blowing smoke!!!!

Where I live we prefer a balanced dog too much of the one with out there other and you end up treeing less coon.

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

You're welcome to come hunt with him GA DAWG. I guarantee you can drop him anywhere anytime and he'll have one as long as there's a coon moving somewhere. I haven't put much effort into finishing him after I went to 3-4 hunts and got 2nd places. All he needs is a first to finish and I'm running low on money right now. As far as getting 3 coons treed in 2 hours, where I hunt I've seen the best of the best go around here and rarely have I ever seen 3 coons get treed in that time unless you drop on feeders or you tree a few doubles or a triple. Mainly because it takes so long to get to the dogs. I hunt some rough country and many people have came here to hunt for the first time and said they'd never be back because of how rough it is.

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Preston Chadwell
276-275-3615

To clear my question up, I'm wondering who is looking for the type of dog like I have? One that is your buddy during the day, and trees coons night in and night out no matter where you drop it or the conditions when you drop it. Not the high powered competition type that blows through the country and grabs a tree (right or wrong) when it smells a hot coon and knocks the limbs off 120 bpm. Who's breeding for the good ol country coondog that puts the hides on the barn everytime you cut him loose, but may never have a title put on it?

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Preston Chadwell
276-275-3615

quote:

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Originally posted by Preston Chadwell
To clear my question up, I'm wondering who is looking for the type of dog like I have? One that is your buddy during the day, and trees coons night in and night out no matter where you drop it or the conditions when you drop it. Not the high powered competition type that blows through the country and grabs a tree (right or wrong) when it smells a hot coon and knocks the limbs off 120 bpm. Who's breeding for the good ol country coondog that puts the hides on the barn everytime you cut him loose, but may never have a title put on it?

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I agree a dog has to have enough brains to be abe to move a rough track in the right direction and get treed. I've seen alot of track straddlers that were idiots. Track straddlers just flat out don't have it between the ears in my opinion.

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Preston Chadwell
276-275-3615

quote:

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Originally posted by Preston Chadwell
I agree a dog has to have enough brains to be abe to move a rough track in the right direction and get treed. I've seen alot of track straddlers that were idiots. Track straddlers just flat out don't have it between the ears in my opinion.

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Preston, if your dog has a coon every time he trees but it takes him 15 seconds to locate and settle on a tree, he ain't beating a dog that takes 2 seconds to settle and tree. But if the 2 second dog has coon every third time he trees, which one do you want to pleasure hunt with and which one do you want for a competition dog?

quote:

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Originally posted by jwalters
I believe the root of the problem lies with the way nite hunt's are set up they are suited to the hotter nose pop up type of dog's!! I'm not a old veteran but I do know back in 80's and before there seemed to be more blueticks winning and some of the older gentleman that I have talked with said that extra hr of hunting really made the dogs with nose and track power shine! so as the kennel clubs making hunts shorter there is going to be more of the pop up type of dogs its what wins in the hunts but I do believe there will be the tradionist that will not breed for the night hunts and still breed for the track power the ones that you can tree coon in feb. on a 0 deg night there just not going to be easy to find! I traveled 10 hrs to pick up a pup last fall that has not titles and was from two country coondogs that can get it done!

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__________________
Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

quote:

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Originally posted by buck brush
I have hunted 3 hr hunts and 2 hr hunts and 1 hr hunts if you take a coon dog to a hunt it does not matter you will win a true coon dog can tree any type of coon track that they come across no matter what type of track or where they are. and that is the only type of dog that eats food at my house.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jwalters
That's the type we all want no dough! but I don't think that's what's really happing! No disrespect

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__________________
Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

Buck I do belive you!! that's what needs to happin more! people settle for dogs that slick or do what ever eles that is undesired and people breed to dogs because of the Name...... that's not right we will ruin the breeds if its not corrected but what i'm saying is there will still be the people that run honest coondogs!! those will not be the people blowing up the dogs just good old boys that like to have a COONDOG! and will not settle for less!

800 circle will not bet 25+

Preston, wish I lived closer we could have a lot of fun huntin together. ....I would rather wait 30 minutes and walk 400 yards and look at a coon than wait 10 minutes and walk half a mile to a slick....buck brush you hit the nail on the head....

Preston I want exactly the kind of dog you describe. I have one that is pretty close. A blue dog. I will probably never feed a walker. I dont hardly like anybody that likes walkers. LOL I do think that my blue dog can win hunts but I dont really have the desire to comp hunt. My joy is training a good dog and seeing them develop.

To answer the above question, I'd much rather have the dog that takes 15 seconds to settle in on a tree and has the meat in any situation Competition or pleasure hunting. That's why I feed what I feed. I just seem to be taking alot of 2nd and 3rd places in the hunts because of it. I don't get first tree everytime when ol big ears comes running from a half mile away and slams the tree my dog is checking and coming back to before he locks down. I don't see anything wrong with it if that's what you like to hunt, but I myself want a dog that doesn't depend on another hound to find his coons for him. The no check slam treed type dogs rack up the points in the summer time when buddies plus them or even if they do get circled it's alot better for them than minus. In the winter my dog holds his own in casts and wins quite a few of them by always having his coons, but "ol big ears" always seems to scrape some of his points away to make him fall just short of 1st place. Not knocking anyone's dogs or what they like to hunt. My dog sure does not walk on water but you'd be hard pressed to find one more accurate and consistent than he is.

Mr. Burks if you ever get up this way give me a holler. We'll have fun pleasure hunting

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Preston Chadwell
276-275-3615

The reason the comptition hunters are after more tree than track is because all of the kc's are centered in the north country where there is open country. Where coons stay in the tree more than on the ground. All you really need is a squirrel dog. A lot different here though where coons run for hours not minutes. I am talking RUNNING not trailing. And besides a machete want fit there hand. You will not walk to many dogs that have slick treed. They usually don't last long. When they tree here the fun is over and the WORK begins. Does not look good enough on a score card. That is one reason they moved the winter classic. It is all geological. Got to have track DRIVING power here to force a coon up a tree.

Yea here in these mountains it's no fun walking to a dog that misses for whatever reason. I see more people wanting the type of hound I'm talking about in the southern states than up north.

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Preston Chadwell
276-275-3615