UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Speed or efficiency (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928404319)

The Tortiose and The Hare

From what I have seen an ambush style dog is by far the quickest way to tree coon. That being said, I don't think this is a very suitable type of dog for any other type of hunting then competition.

So if we add some nose power and some track, we then will have a more balanced dog that can still win on the weekends but also can be more enjoyable to hunt.

That being said, if you had to pick between adding speed or efficiency which would you choose? Obv both would be ideal. However from what I have seen, some of these dogs have so much juice bred into them that they often fly by coon, run multiple tracks before getting Treed, slick, prefer running over trailing or tracking. That being said I am starting to look for efficiency over speed. Just wondered if anyone else has noticed this?

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

I like a dog that can run the first track it comes to. The #1 reason for this is getting out of pocket around here makes my life miserable being that I walk to all my trees, roads, and small parcels of land. Of the track happens to be out of pocket so be it, but 9/10 there is a track within 300 yards of a turn out around here.

__________________
The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

In our country a balanced cold nosed dog will win a higher percentage than an ambush dog. The coon are scattered and travel a big area to feed. The ambush dog gets outstruck and travels a mile or so while the tracking dog trees one in half or less distance. When turned off the tree the ambush dog may very well be out of hearing on the second tree and it has to tree 2 to beat the dog that outstruck it but the tracking dog must tree a coon.

Give me the one that drops way through the country a hundred miles an hour, seldom opens on the ground, and falls treed with a high percentage of its coons. If that's an ambush dog, so be it. I'll look for an ambush dog. This is the most enjoyable type dog to hunt (for me) on weeknights, or on the rare occasion that I enter a hunt.

Everyone has their opinions, but to me trailing and unwinding tracks is for beagles. I just don't have the desire to walk one till its struck, build a fire and admire his ability to work that first crappy track he came across. I'll take one that skips through the world and hammers a hot coon. I'd much rather walk 6 miles to 5 trees in a night that 300 yards to one.

WELL

I guess it boils down to if you injoy just killen coons or listening to a coon dog tree one..........To each there own....I wouldn't trade my past years hunts with long gone friends listening to HOUNDS striking & trailing a coon to a tree for anything in the world....

__________________
TOM WINGFIELD



CROOKED RIVER DUDE... 5/14/04--2/20/12.....[ PLOTT ]

GASCONADE RIVER GOOD GOLLY MISS MOLLIE [ TOAD & MOLLY ANN ] ENGLISH



HONEST OPEN MOUTH, STAY PUT TREEDOGS.. THAT CATCH GAME.....

573-765-5461

****I USE AND RECOMMEND LEMS LIGHTS***

i enjoy a quick hound in every way. i also still enjoy and very much respect great track work done by any hound! im not lazy by no means but i dont wont to walk miles to every coon i tree either. you miss out on hearing the track. many times you wouldn't feel like cutting that dog loose again that nite or atleast not in the same woods. also some hunters dont have woods that can handle ambush style dogs. if you do have an ambush dog without the right woods he wont live long without being road kill or you may have many unhappy neighbors.
i guess some of it depends on how much winning hunts or enjoying ur hunt means to you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cory Highfill
Give me the one that drops way through the country a hundred miles an hour, seldom opens on the ground, and falls treed with a high percentage of its coons. If that's an ambush dog, so be it. I'll look for an ambush dog. This is the most enjoyable type dog to hunt (for me) on weeknights, or on the rare occasion that I enter a hunt.

Everyone has their opinions, but to me trailing and unwinding tracks is for beagles. I just don't have the desire to walk one till its struck, build a fire and admire his ability to work that first crappy track he came across. I'll take one that skips through the world and hammers a hot coon. I'd much rather walk 6 miles to 5 trees in a night that 300 yards to one.

---

__________________
Tyler Ringo

Nitech Ch 'PR' Cornell's Hardwood Hurricane HTX

GrSqch 2017 Arklahoma Winter Classic Champion
The Outlaw Dottie

Speed & Eff

I prefer Both, Strike to tree should be like a good song you hear the verses and join in on the Chorus

__________________
Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into

Ray Hudson

Speed/Efficiency

I like a cold nose dog and independent that can DRIFT a track and give enough mouth to enjoy but not too much so he can close ground on the coon. Percentages are higher with an ambush dog of course but I do not shot coons because I enjoy what happens before that too much. If you are fortunate enough to own one that knows how to use his COLD NOSE accordingly you have yourself what I call a coon dog but I havent seen one of those in years in my neck of the woods...

__________________
Morgan Todd
Sumter,SC

quote:

---

Originally posted by pamjohnson
i enjoy a quick hound in every way. i also still enjoy and very much respect great track work done by any hound! im not lazy by no means but i dont wont to walk miles to every coon i tree either. you miss out on hearing the track. many times you wouldn't feel like cutting that dog loose again that nite or atleast not in the same woods. also some hunters dont have woods that can handle ambush style dogs. if you do have an ambush dog without the right woods he wont live long without being road kill or you may have many unhappy neighbors.
i guess some of it depends on how much winning hunts or enjoying ur hunt means to you.

---

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

brains vs athleticism and raw abilities, might be away of putting a different spin on it.

Geeky kid coon dog verse the highschool all star quarterback coon dog.

To me an efficient Hunter uses there head and nose together more where a speed freak may be more or less just relying on natural abilities. Yes both would be the best combo, but if you had to pick one which?

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

tough one

Im going to pick the slow and steady dog. Only because i can see the fast dog missing occasionally.

But then it gets into. "The fast track dog hits 10 trees as the slow and steady track dog hits 5, Fast track 5/10 coon. Slow and steady 5/5". hmm..

__________________
Dark Horse Kennels
--------------------------------------------
Boone Searles
bsearlesa@gmail.com
(765) 661-2563
Mt. Etna Indiana

Speed VS Efficiency-I want both!!

I want the fastest track dog that opens on the ground and here is why. The really fast track dog can make some coons that normally don't want to climb, go up a tree rather than being caught on the ground. The slow steady dog is OK for pleasure hunting, it will tree most of the coons in the woods that are not to spooky, but sometimes it takes that extra little bit of speed to force a smart coon up a tree. But my goal is to breed a dog that, Opens on track as soon as it finds one, pushes the track out from the immediate area, ahead of the other dogs, and can out run everything else on the track, thus getting to the tree first, and then the real pudding is that it has the coon when you get there. Fast without accuracy is not a lot better than a dog that won't tree at all.

My experience over the years has been that the more track driving you put into your linage, the less treeing instinct you get. The more tree dog you put in your linage, the less track dog/accuracy you have.

The premier coon hound is when you reach that perfect balance between excellent tracking ability combined with excellent locating ability, and then add the chrome of a 120 BPM tree dog.

With a dog like that there are no excuses, The dog out strikes, out tracks, out locates, and out trees most everything it is set down beside of, and it also must have the coon. When you loose to a dog like that, there is not much room to go back home and say, man if Ole so and so would have just done this, I would have won!!

__________________
Phone-740-767-2572
Dave Mayles
11210 Davis Road
Glouster, Ohio 45732
Home To:
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Hang'em High Holly
Gr.Nt.Ch. Hooper Ridge Rockets Top Gun.
Gr.Nt.Ch.Hooper Ridge Rocket
Gr.Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Dolly
Nt.Ch Hooper Ridge Queen
Nt.Ch Raw Dawg Rowdy
PR Tree Banging Buddy
HOOPER RIDGE ENGLISH-POUND FOR POUND THEY ARE ONE TOUGH HOUND!!!!

Brains over anything and ever thing else according to the man with the true Clover connection Joe Newlin and you never too old to learn if you will accept the truth.

If you never try something different how do you know its not better than your way or that someone else may have an answer that is better than yours.

I use to own those race horse dogs that flew through the country and got treed then i purchased a Clover dog out of The Great White Shark and any where i turned her lose within 200 yards and most the time less she would be after a coon.

This completly changed my mind on coon hunting was that nose power or was that brains for if you passed up a coon before you turned out a quarter mile on up the road she would go back and tree that coon to me that is brains to be able to go back down the road to where she barked in the box to strike and tree that coon while the other hunters would be gone two hours gong to their dogs miles across mountain while my clover dog and i just sit in the truck and drink coffee or soda and wait for their return.

__________________
CARL FOX,JR.
BOONEVILLE,KY

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING INSTEAD
OF HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS!!!

Like

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carl Fox
Brains over anything and ever thing else according to the man with the true Clover connection Joe Newlin and you never too old to learn if you will accept the truth.

If you never try something different how do you know its not better than your way or that someone else may have an answer that is better than yours.

I use to own those race horse dogs that flew through the country and got treed then i purchased a Clover dog out of The Great White Shark and any where i turned her lose within 200 yards and most the time less she would be after a coon.

This completly changed my mind on coon hunting was that nose power or was that brains for if you passed up a coon before you turned out a quarter mile on up the road she would go back and tree that coon to me that is brains to be able to go back down the road to where she barked in the box to strike and tree that coon while the other hunters would be gone two hours gong to their dogs miles across mountain while my clover dog and i just sit in the truck and drink coffee or soda and wait for their return.

---

__________________
Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into

Ray Hudson

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carl Fox
Brains over anything and ever thing else according to the man with the true Clover connection Joe Newlin and you never too old to learn if you will accept the truth.

If you never try something different how do you know its not better than your way or that someone else may have an answer that is better than yours.

I use to own those race horse dogs that flew through the country and got treed then i purchased a Clover dog out of The Great White Shark and any where i turned her lose within 200 yards and most the time less she would be after a coon.

This completly changed my mind on coon hunting was that nose power or was that brains for if you passed up a coon before you turned out a quarter mile on up the road she would go back and tree that coon to me that is brains to be able to go back down the road to where she barked in the box to strike and tree that coon while the other hunters would be gone two hours gong to their dogs miles across mountain while my clover dog and i just sit in the truck and drink coffee or soda and wait for their return.

---

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

I love those Clover dogs but hate walking to all those trees alone at my age.

Just as soon have a pack dog to pleasure hunt with if they did not leave the country to find a coon.

I contend there is a coon within 200 yards of you any time you turn your dogs out in a decent hunting spot dogs just past them up running seven or eight hundred yards before they think about looking for a coon.

Last two hunts i been on i was carrying a young dog in the box wanting to get it on a coon for he is so independent he will not back a dog 50 yards away so what happens the guys i were hunting with treed their dogs both nights with their garmins and i never did hear a track or tree bark.

Man that is not coon hunting you got to here the race and see who has the best track dog ,the fastest track dog and the quickest and most accurate tree dog.

IMO Competition hunting has destroyed pleasure hunting for all competition hunters care about is first strike and 1st tree doesent matter if all those female coyote yipping mouths are heard or not the garmin will tell them ever thing they need to know and nothing wrong with all of this if thats the way you like to go but i bet the majority of the old timers like it the way it use to be.JMO.

__________________
CARL FOX,JR.
BOONEVILLE,KY

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING INSTEAD
OF HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS!!!

SPEED!!!!

__________________
PKC CH NITECH 'PR' JOHNSON CREEK RAT (O- Nick Imel, H-Eric Farmer)
'PR' STRETCH (NGRNITCH GRNITECH FEELIN BIG x NITECH ADAMS TREEING DOLLY)

I prefer one that can and will run a track.
But I also want one to be trying to catch what its tracking.

Re: Speed VS Efficiency-I want both!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rocketman55
I want the fastest track dog that opens on the ground and here is why. The really fast track dog can make some coons that normally don't want to climb, go up a tree rather than being caught on the ground. The slow steady dog is OK for pleasure hunting, it will tree most of the coons in the woods that are not to spooky, but sometimes it takes that extra little bit of speed to force a smart coon up a tree. But my goal is to breed a dog that, Opens on track as soon as it finds one, pushes the track out from the immediate area, ahead of the other dogs, and can out run everything else on the track, thus getting to the tree first, and then the real pudding is that it has the coon when you get there. Fast without accuracy is not a lot better than a dog that won't tree at all.

My experience over the years has been that the more track driving you put into your linage, the less treeing instinct you get. The more tree dog you put in your linage, the less track dog/accuracy you have.

The premier coon hound is when you reach that perfect balance between excellent tracking ability combined with excellent locating ability, and then add the chrome of a 120 BPM tree dog.

With a dog like that there are no excuses, The dog out strikes, out tracks, out locates, and out trees most everything it is set down beside of, and it also must have the coon. When you loose to a dog like that, there is not much room to go back home and say, man if Ole so and so would have just done this, I would have won!!

---

__________________
C.JONES

So the conclusions seems to be both are needed. So let me ask this is speed often mistaken as effectiveness?

Let me explain, dog A gets first strike, first off the lead, first to strike drives a track in there deep. Dog B is slow off the lead, and a few minutes after dog a has been struck in, dog b strikes and shortly thereafter falls treed for first tree, Dog b is treed behind dog A and only a few hundreds yards from the cast. Then Dog A gets called treed, but is 750 yards to a 1000 yards away from the cast.

What just happened?
Imo Dog A either hopped tracks,ran trash or was just babbling and running. Dog A looked good,sounded good wether dog A has the coon or not is irrelevant. Dog A missed the coon that was directly in front of it why?

Dog B not very flashy, looked slow,started slow but the end result was the dog did his job, treeing the first possible coon it could, resulting in first tree with a coon.


What do you guys make of these two different types of dogs?

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fisher13
Dog B not very flashy, looked slow, started slow but the end result was the dog did his job, treeing the first possible coon it could, resulting in first tree with a coon.

What do you guys make of these two different types of dogs?

---

__________________
GRNITECH PKC CH GLANCY'S KY FOOT (RIP)
NITECH PKC CH GLANCY'S KY JUDY (RIP)
NITECH PKC CH GLANCY'S 7 MILE SCREAMER (RIP)
GRNITECH PKC CH 'PR' HARD KNOCKIN STYLISH MAC (RIP)
GRNITECH X2 PKC CH 'PR' GLANCY'S 7 MILE CLYDE
GRNITECH PKC CH 'PR' GLANCY'S 7 MILE MERCY

quote:

---

Originally posted by GLANCY'S 7 MILE
A dog that blows through the country and ambushes a coon, will tree a lot of coon around here, but it can be miserable. For 1.) The walking around here is not the best! 2.) You don't hear the dog running their track because the dogs to deep, so you have to drive around watching your Garmin to see where he/she is treed. So all you hear is the dog treed. Where's the fun in that? 3.) It's hard to win with that type of dog in a hunt around here because their always out of hearing, due to the terrain.

I'll take Dog B any day of the week. Yes I love speed, but what's speed in coon hunting if it doesn't result in a COON. I love competition hunts but I have to have a dog that's enjoyable to hunt during the week as well. I personally believe Dog B would be the ideal pleasure hound as well as win a high majority of his/her cast.

---

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

the 1 that trees the most coons is the best track dog.i don't mind 1 that miss every now then but seldom does.

I think every pup born has plenty of nose to run a coon (hot or cold), they are stinky critters and travel pretty close to the ground. Where the difference comes in is what happens between that nose and the brain, the prey drive ,the desire to CATCH is what seperates them. Most of us have seen pups that after only a few nights in the woods seem to be able to just fly on a track, and we have also seen dogs that after years of hunting are content (track minded) to plod along for hours sticking there nose in every foot print looking for a little scent.
You guys that want more track in a dog should look to the lion hunters out west that have bred dogs that will devote themselves to a day old track, but be aware that it will be a tradeoff, because when the track gets good those guys can turn in the run to catch dogs that leave that methodacal cold nosed track dog in the dust. The big? here is why cant the cold trailer run the hot track as fast as the hotter nosed dog that wouldnt start that old track.
A productive coondog is one whos talents strike a BALANCE, and that balance varies a bunch depending on how and where you hunt. An old guy in my area that bred fox hounds all his life once told me a dog was like a full bucket of water, "the only way to add something is to have less of something else"

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside