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-- Harry, Sacket, Nailor, Lipper Question? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928401540)

Harry, Sacket, Nailor, Lipper Question?

It's seems that with the walker today's, most of them go back to one of these 4 studs.

I was wondering what Info you guys could share on these dogs?
I knows Harry dogs tend to be wired and hard going, like to get treed quick.

I know Nailor threws lots of tree as well, big mouths,and I personally have a hunch he threw some brains. Unconfirmed.

Sacket Jr. I know little about but from what I understand he may have thrown the most balance of the bunch?

Lipper, I understand was the most track oriented out of the bunch, and could really drive tracks as well threw a lot of hunt in his dogs.

Not looking to stir up trouble, and in reality most of this blood is probably watered down to the point there isn't much of a point in having this discussion. Just was curious.

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

I cant find much info about sackett jr. There is tons of great info on finleyriverchief.com. Id really like to hear about him

Lipper, prduced go go go, track driving speed, mouth and super good looks. Many of today's solid foundations were built on LIPPER females...
Nailor....big dogs,, big mouths and treeeee dawgs.nailor was a chromier version of tar rattler,and a better producer than rattler. Trackman is the next in this line with the sacket jr thrown in through Rock river lady, and she brought into it, the independence that you can get out of trackman. Trackman will also be remembered for his reproducing females he produced like ole LIPPER..watch and see
Sty Harry ... Allot like the lipper dogs. He was loaded with lipper...allot of drive real good mouths more tree than lipper and independence. I've had several Harry and Harry bred dogs all but one were allot of work,but all were worth the work i put in in the end.. Really like the Harry bred dogs..not for the faint of heart..lol
Sacket jr ....tree dogs with looks produced allot of good tree dogs, when we bred to him we lost allot of track speed..the ones we raised out of him were good cold nosed track dogs but we lost the speed on the hot And cold tracks that the line had that we bred to him . Real good stay put tree dogs.

...These are and were my findings and experiances. Others may have had totally different experiances
..so you can take this for what it is worth...with all due respect for all the dogs mentioned.

__________________
JAMES RIVER HOUND KENNEL
JAY BRADEMEYER 701 308 0490
Home of the late Ntch Lipper's Lip Lock Lizzy, Ntch Moonshiners Sassy, and 88 Walker Days Winner Grntch Ceder Hill Sass

"Building on a solid foundation starts on the bottom side"

Jay all I want is peoples well thought out opinions. Yours certainly fall into that category. Ty for sharing.

When you say Harry dogs were a lot of work, do you mean, just really tough to hunt down? Or just had some faults that needed hunted out of them? Slow starters but finished out nice?

When you say sackett dogs were a bit slower do you mean that they were more of a nose down type dog, that enjoyed running those old feeder tracks? We're his dogs more suitable for pleasure hunters in many ways?

Thanks again for sharing.
Even though more and more I am putting less and less stock in pedigrees, it's always nice to know as much as you can about a dog and where he came from.

Are there any names you feel should be added to the list or maybe a dog from the same era that were overlooked?

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

I have hunted with Nailor and I hunted with his daddy Rattler too. Both dogs were very nice all around hounds that were not mean at all and had a good mouth. They were the type of hound that most guys would want to own. You would have to be ridiculously picky or extremely very bored to sit around and dream up faults on either dog. I personally didn't care for their size...they were big dogs.
I never knew Sackett, Jr. or his daddy, but I knew his grand dad...Ntch. Yadkin River Crowder. I spent many a night in the woods with him back in the 80's. He was as nice a dog you could ever want, he definitely ran a track very deliberate and was a stay put dog. Nothing blow down about him, he just didn't make mistakes. He could have easily finished out to grand, but his owner just didn't put him in the hunts much after he made nite champion. I think his owner didn't want to take any chances having him ate up in a hunt, there were a lot more mean dogs around back in those days.
Crowder could have probably won just about any hunt you wanted to put him in, he was good and he was way above average when it came to staying away from those minus points. He was a very intelligent dog. He wasn't loud, but didn't have a bad mouth and he wasn't a crazy treeing dog either. I guess the best way to describe Crowder was that he was the type of dog that when he barked you were soon gonna look at a coon with no B.S. about it. Very well balanced and a good reproducer.
He wasn't promoted hardly at all, word of mouth was about it. If he would have been promoted and finished out {making grand really was a big deal back then, it's expected to day} I believe he could have been every bit the famous bloodline as some of the greats today. This is not a far leap when you consider what his offspring have done.
I have said it before, there is a big choice to be made by the owner of a good stud dog...do I pick and choose carefully the females to breed to reproduce the best??? Or, do I take all the money I can and cruise around in a new truck??? Tough choice...what would you do???

Edit: I should throw in there that back in those days I hunted all redbones for what it's worth.

The Harry dogs i fooled with were allot of work cause they were allot like the LIPPERS they had more nose than brains to begin with when starting out. I knew from past experience with the LIPPERS that they would get smarter with time and not bite off more than they could chew...But my patiants was less with the Harry dogs cause i was older and was a better trainer. So everyone but one i beat the brush bihind them and move them on on those tracks that were to much for them as they were young dogs...That was the work i was talking about... You don't make a Harry dogs on the tailgate sipping coffee and talking about ole so n so..they have enormous talent And drive, and you need to hone it and point it in the right direction and that takes work, every bit of the work was worth it because they finished out into what i was wanting....
... The sacket jr dogs have allot of tree in them..a lot...and the ones we had direct off him were track stradlers . they were off a female that was a track driver hot or cold...but i also seen them jr dogs in thick coon in Michigan tree them like squirrels.that were they shined.. Like i said some might not agree with me. Just talking of my experiances...and you can't call one dog off so and so the rule cause both sides make the dog.... Along with there handler...and a dog off the same sire from a different bitch can be totally the opposite...

__________________
JAMES RIVER HOUND KENNEL
JAY BRADEMEYER 701 308 0490
Home of the late Ntch Lipper's Lip Lock Lizzy, Ntch Moonshiners Sassy, and 88 Walker Days Winner Grntch Ceder Hill Sass

"Building on a solid foundation starts on the bottom side"

Lots of good info guys here keep coming! Thanks Alot!

What ever happened to the yadkin line? Did that pretty much turn into nailor and sackett?

__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

quote:

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Originally posted by Fisher13
Lots of good info guys here keep coming! Thanks Alot!

What ever happened to the yadkin line? Did that pretty much turn into nailor and sackett?

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quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
There must still be a lot of Yadkin River bred dogs {or any other line of the past} out there, but where or how do you find them???? [/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by jay brademeyer
The Harry dogs i fooled with were allot of work cause they were allot like the LIPPERS they had more nose than brains to begin with when starting out. I knew from past experience with the LIPPERS that they would get smarter with time and not bite off more than they could chew...But my patiants was less with the Harry dogs cause i was older and was a better trainer. So everyone but one i beat the brush bihind them and move them on on those tracks that were to much for them as they were young dogs...That was the work i was talking about... You don't make a Harry dogs on the tailgate sipping coffee and talking about ole so n so..they have enormous talent And drive, and you need to hone it and point it in the right direction and that takes work, every bit of the work was worth it because they finished out into what i was wanting....
... The sacket jr dogs have allot of tree in them..a lot...and the ones we had direct off him were track stradlers . they were off a female that was a track driver hot or cold...but i also seen them jr dogs in thick coon in Michigan tree them like squirrels.that were they shined.. Like i said some might not agree with me. Just talking of my experiances...and you can't call one dog off so and so the rule cause both sides make the dog.... Along with there handler...and a dog off the same sire from a different bitch can be totally the opposite...

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__________________
It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

quote:

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Originally posted by jay brademeyer
The Harry dogs i fooled with were allot of work cause they were allot like the LIPPERS they had more nose than brains to begin with when starting out. I knew from past experience with the LIPPERS that they would get smarter with time and not bite off more than they could chew...But my patiants was less with the Harry dogs cause i was older and was a better trainer. So everyone but one i beat the brush bihind them and move them on on those tracks that were to much for them as they were young dogs...That was the work i was talking about... You don't make a Harry dogs on the tailgate sipping coffee and talking about ole so n so..they have enormous talent And drive, and you need to hone it and point it in the right direction and that takes work, every bit of the work was worth it because they finished out into what i was wanting....
... The sacket jr dogs have allot of tree in them..a lot...and the ones we had direct off him were track stradlers . they were off a female that was a track driver hot or cold...but i also seen them jr dogs in thick coon in Michigan tree them like squirrels.that were they shined.. Like i said some might not agree with me. Just talking of my experiances...and you can't call one dog off so and so the rule cause both sides make the dog.... Along with there handler...and a dog off the same sire from a different bitch can be totally the opposite...

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__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

Alot of the cold nosed dogs have more nose than they know what to do with when they are young... Most figure it out in time for sure,and when they do they usually make very good track dogs hot or cold...i usually don't like mine to fool around with them cold tracks much,so i tend to move them on if they spend much time with a rough track.... Every LIPPER And close LIPPER bred dog i have been around made tremendous track dogs once their brain caught up with their nose...lol...but like i said before i break mine from messing to long with those old tracks when they are young...... If i didn't have many coon that would be different, but i have enough coons , and them old feeder tracks will freeze you to death up here in the north country ..lol.. I want one that gets his track to the right tree the quickest , and usually that takes a real track driving dog... If that means dropping off an old feed track that caught their attention for a few min. , and drift in and find it or another that's what i want...if they can move that rough track great, but that sap sucker better not be in there turning leaves over, or he is going to get moved on out of there....Some fellas are to fat and lazy to do this and they would rather sit on the tailgate and dream up some excuse with conditions or what ever. When what they need to do is get in there and send that bugger on..jmo..
..a dog with all the born in talent is only as good as his handler...he will be better than the one with less talent, but who is handling him will determine how good he can get..

__________________
JAMES RIVER HOUND KENNEL
JAY BRADEMEYER 701 308 0490
Home of the late Ntch Lipper's Lip Lock Lizzy, Ntch Moonshiners Sassy, and 88 Walker Days Winner Grntch Ceder Hill Sass

"Building on a solid foundation starts on the bottom side"

info

Jay that was an insightful and knowledgeable response to the question that was posted about what you have experienced with dogs from those studs. Standing still wanting on a leave turner is not fun in the heat of the south or the cold of the north.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

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