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Trashbreaking question

I have an 18 mo female who has treed her own coon several times. She has been trained to come to a verbal command and the tone on a shocking collar. She has also been shocked for not responding to verbal command or the tone. I want to release her on a daytime deer track or maybe sight of a running deer. My question is this: Should I use a verbal command, no, and the tone before shocking her if she tries to run the deer? She has been introduced to the verbal no for other unwanted behavior. She looks like she has the possibility of being a pretty nice hound so I don't want to mess up by not doing this right.

I all ways just use the shock at a level that works for my dogs . I want them to associate getting shocked with the deer and not me . a smart dog is like a child and if they can't see you they think they can get away with it lol . but in the old days all we had was the no command and a switch if necessary .

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I wouldn't drop her on any trash unless you have strong reasons to believe there running trash, if she is treeing coon, just keep her in coon. The more she runs and tree coon,the more she will love doing it. Teach a dog to love treeing coon, and you won't have to worry about the dog running trash.

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
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To answer your question, when trash breaking, I like to leave the e collar on a day before and leave it on afterwards, that way hopefully they associate the shock with scent. I will do it multiple nights in a row, to ingrain the lesson. I try to hide and be out of sight, I also never use the tone. I use an above average setting, but only a couple clicks more.

I've had very little trash problems, knock on wood. I think guys had a lot more problems with trashy dogs, when there was a lot less coon. Now there pretty plentiful so its easy to keep a dog straight.

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

A dog that has treed her own coon a few times isn't ready for any kind of trash breaking.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
A dog that has treed her own coon a few times isn't ready for any kind of trash breaking.

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I always always always tone before shocking any dog. After conditioning the dog to this 99% of the time all I have to do is tone the dog to get them to stop any unwanted behavior. Beats having to shock the dog every time to correct them. I tone the dog if it doesn't stop the unwanted behavior then I use shock and only enough shock to get a response. Once they catch on 9 times out of 10 all you will have to do is tone the dog and they will quit the track or behavior and come back. This is the way I have been doing it for 25 years and I have never seen it not work.

Bingo!!

A dog that has treed her own coon a few times isn't ready for any kind of trash breaking.

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Danny G

From your post it sounds like either this dog is not running deer or maybe running deer but you don't know for sure??? If this dog is not running deer I wouldn't dump her on one to see "what if."
If you want to check out whether or not she will hunt her during the day so you can better see what is going on. That is not the same as encouraging the dog...she will always be turned out in places deer exist in the future.
If she is running deer I totally disagree with the wait until later theory. Just how good are you supposed to let her get at trash running before it's "O.K." to begin stopping her????? Most dogs start out running deer first, it's the trail with the most scent and the easiest and most exciting to the dog. Just how many coons should this dog have to then go on and tree before it's decided to stop the off game nonsense????{all the while getting worse on deer!!!}

Guys, thanks for the suggestions. I have not confirmed that she is running deer. The last night I had her out she wanted to run the fields rather than hunt the woods. One complication is that she is really tight mouth on a track. Usually doesn't say anything on a coon track that is moving, but will bawl if she gets confused or if it goes up. I am in a thin coon area with probably 10x deer to coon. Plus we are a couple months into the kill season and the easy ones are already in the freezer or on stretchers. I think I will wait before dumping her on deer, but I might lead her over a deer track and see how she reacts. Going have time to think about it cause I noticed this morning she just started coming in heat. Again thanks for the advice.

Just keep her in coon,over time you will get better at this. I wouldn't knock many out if your in thin coon better off coming back a week later to run that same coon.

You will know when she starts trashing, I wouldn't worry about it until then. Just focus on finding the best hunting spots you can to hunt her in. Right now can be tough coon don't seem to move much here this time of year. Good time for her to come into heat,not in middle of October like mine did.

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

Jim

Let's look at a situation where one is hunting a 7 month old pup that has treed 11 coons on its's own and has now decided to blister a few deer tracks. No question,they were deer chases. With blacktop roads every square mile how would one try to slow one down because here,it these situations it truly means death from a hardtop road sooner or later.I for one don't like to get on young pups at this age but in this case something needs to be done. What would you do if it was your pup? Truly a natural and hunted by hisself 99% of the short hunting life he has had!! Later,Danny G.

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Danny G

I am probably not as qualified as some to answer this but in my in my many years of experience when a dog gets on a deer they get they're head full of that scent you can holler come here puppy stop woa or scream at the top of your lungs they're not going to hear you I don't care if they're 6 months or 6 yrs old as soon as I know it's a deer they're going to suffer consequences if it ruins them they're ruint anyway in this country could make for a long night not being able to get to them jmo !!!!!!!

If i kill a deer i will put it in my yard somewhere put the collar on the dog i am wanting to work, turn them loose like nothing is going on and stand back and watch after a few they will smell deer and go to check out when they get up to smelling the deer I put the shock on them.lol They think that thing busted them!
Never had a deer problem, watch them in the woods and they just go around them and keep moving.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

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i am probably not qualified to answer this either but for me i never seen any advantage of letting them run off game. there is no use fooling yourself into thinking your makeing a better track dog or a bigger hunting dog. if breaking them off of offgame ruins them you didn't loose much or you need to learn how to use your shocking collar better. a winner may run trash but a good coon dog wont. but to each there own!

If you are not sure that you have a trash problem, then don't introduce one. When you purposely introduce a dog to deer by dumping them on a deer seen in a field, or similar situation, that is encouraging a trash problem. Expose them to the game you want, not something else. JMO

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
i am probably not qualified to answer this either but for me i never seen any advantage of letting them run off game. there is no use fooling yourself into thinking your makeing a better track dog or a bigger hunting dog. if breaking them off of offgame ruins them you didn't loose much or you need to learn how to use your shocking collar better. a winner may run trash but a good coon dog wont. but to each there own!

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Not sure about the having wrong stock just because they run deer? Most young hounds that won't run a deer is maybe because they can't move a track fast enough! lol
Here in the south if a young hound wants a sure enough challenge he will get him some deer, but they soon learn they have no end(tree) if there smart, or eventually thru training realize that's not what i'm suppose to be running.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

.

I hunt where deer hounds are used to run deer. Last night while we were listening to our hound trail a coon there was a deer hound burning up a deer in the distance. The deer hound was about three times further than our coonhound was and with the high chop mouth we could hear him/her better.
Solid roar of chops.

We kept a close watch on the Garmin Screen in case our dog wanted to check out the deer race as it was a good one. If our dog headed that way the ALPHA was going to apply some correction. That wasn't for even running one, just thinking about it. lol Didn't have to do that and ended up treeing a den tree. Hope the coon was home.

Came home the other night and there were four deer in the yard. Put up two 7 month old pups and they saw the deer and started barking at them, through the fence. I was cleaning pens and gave a few squirts from the water hose.

I have a 18 month old dog that did excellent this summer of leaving deer alone. I was starting to think she would not run one as we see several standing around on just about every turn out. Fall came and I was thinking how good the coon tracks should be with cooler weather. The deer tracks seemed to get better also as she bumped a couple. We did a combination of things and not sure which one worked but she seems to be leaving them alone now. I never trust any of them. They cross a road and I am always checking tracks.

The only thing harder than breaking a dog running deer is breaking a dog from running nothing's lol !!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Not sure about the having wrong stock just because they run deer? Most young hounds that won't run a deer is maybe because they can't move a track fast enough! lol
Here in the south if a young hound wants a sure enough challenge he will get him some deer, but they soon learn they have no end(tree) if there smart, or eventually thru training realize that's not what i'm suppose to be running.

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I agree with you there is no set back trying to stop them, I have never had one in my stock that i could not stop from running deer, they will stop or else.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

I've always enjoyed a good deer race. Just want them to get treed within a mile and a half or so off of it

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I 've always somethinged a good deer race...more than I would care to remember...but I don't recall the word "enjoyed" in there anywhere, haha.