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Allen/UKC/Jim

3 dog cast. Dog A strikes 100, another dog opens up and both remaining handlers call their dogs struck (mind you it's only 1 bark). How should this be scored?

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Frank Manning
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More info

Dog A struck, another dog opens both B,C handlers strike their dog. Should both dogs be put on the paper at 62 1/2 or should they both go on the paper at 75? My opinion is both should get 75, one dog left open and the other dog receives minus once it's determined which dog was called wrong. My reasoning your not striking a dog over another. In my line of thought your scoring the wrongly called dog first leaving them "scored" point open to the other dog(s).

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Frank Manning
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Just hunting to have some fun.
Use only the Rules UKC has writen not the ones you think should be there!

You dont split em if only one dog barked. You'd be cheating the one who's dog really opened. Id right em both in for 75 then minus one of em when I seen which one it was.

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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
You dont split em if only one dog barked. You'd be cheating the one who's dog really opened. Id right em both in for 75 then minus one of em when I seen which one it was.

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That's what I thought but wanted to be sure @GA DAWG

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Frank Manning
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Use only the Rules UKC has writen not the ones you think should be there!

Call.....

How can you correctly determine which one barked with only 1 bark being made, were there mouths that different?

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Dogs B and C put on the scorecard for 75??? You cant have two second strikes...you can split the second strike but not if only one dog opened. What happened as the hunt progressed??? Did a third dog eventually open??? Did the handlers man up when and if it did??? Hard to call without follow on info.

Re: Call.....

quote:

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Originally posted by Triple K Kennel
How can you correctly determine which one barked with only 1 bark being made, were there mouths that different?

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I think initally 75 for each dog should go on the card with the intent to minus the dog that was called incorrectly as soon as the determination could be made.
In the rare case where you have 2 dogs that sound so much alike that the judge cant make a determination which dog opened i would think a split might be the fairest thing to do.

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quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I think initally 75 for each dog should go on the card with the intent to minus the dog that was called incorrectly as soon as the determination could be made.
In the rare case where you have 2 dogs that sound so much alike that the judge cant make a determination which dog opened i would think a split might be the fairest thing to do.

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quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
This is still incorrect...if one dog receives minus points for 75 the other dog does not get the 75. If you write in two second strikes, that implies that there are in fact two available second strike positions, but there is not. So, one dog receives second strike and one dog only. If he receives minus points then only third strike is open and the other dog called would receive that. Positions don't become available until after they are scored. But yeah, splitting the strike for second in this case seems correct given the info.
Given the limited info we got on this we don't know if it was a matter of dogs sounding alike or handler wanting the higher strike position. We don't know if the other guy questioned it or what else transpired...too much missing to make a good call.

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GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
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not sure i would be correct in doing it but i would put them both on for 75 then i would make the decision who called the wrong dog they would get minus and given the warning of 1st offense.

Dog B was the dog that barked, owner of dog C maned up when his dog opened.

As only 1 dog barked in my opinion the minused dog was already scored so that position is open to other dogs in the cast. That means dog B is able to go on the card for 75 as well as dog C going on the card for 75-

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Frank Manning
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Home of
GrNtCh GrCh PKC Ch 'PR' Kate N Roys Demon Seed

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Just hunting to have some fun.
Use only the Rules UKC has writen not the ones you think should be there!

quote:

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Originally posted by runnin rebels
that is not correct either. after it is minused it becomes open again.

Here is how it should have went.

Handler A "strike A" =100 points

another dog opens once Handler B and C "strike B strike C" (at the same time)

Judge asks "what dog is that and who is going to take their minus"

Handler C says "my bad that wasn't my dog"

Dog C is -75 and B is on the card for 75

And if no one steps up and takes the minus the judge has to make a judgment call and give one minus and put the other in for 75 and wait for the question

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quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
That's not correct either...after it has been SCORED the position becomes available again. I refer you to please read pages 21 and 22 of "The Advisor" addresses this issue of positions available/dogs moving up. That rule was changed ten years {plus however old the current Advisor is} The new rule reads "once a position has been SCORED it becomes available again. The old rule used to read "once a position has been MINUSED.

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GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

You minus him for the position he called for. If they both struck at the same time then it is split and when it is determined who struck the wrong dog they are minused. If one handler got it out before the other then they go in for 75 and 50 and once you figure out the one that needs minused you minus them for the position they called.

quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
That's not correct either...after it has been SCORED the position becomes available again. I refer you to please read pages 21 and 22 of "The Advisor" addresses this issue of positions available/dogs moving up. That rule was changed ten years {plus however old the current Advisor is} The new rule reads "once a position has been SCORED it becomes available again. The old rule used to read "once a position has been MINUSED.

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Frank Manning
(810) 347-5292
Home of
GrNtCh GrCh PKC Ch 'PR' Kate N Roys Demon Seed

NtCh FCh CH 'PR' Just A Dog


Just hunting to have some fun.
Use only the Rules UKC has writen not the ones you think should be there!

Let me ask...how many different "sets" of strike points do you guys think there is??? As many as you want to use??? Last time I checked there were only ever ONE {1}, a single set of strike points.
It's a little too long for me to copy word for word but I suggest you read pages 21,22 of "The Advisor."
His very first sentence: "I think that without a doubt, someone who is the least bit convincing in their ability to discuss rule interpretations while out on a cast could probably pull this one off on occasion." Sounds like you guys do it on a regular basis...

quote:

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Originally posted by Frank M
Ok so if you + or - a dog doesn't that mean you have "scored" it? So in reality this position HAS been SCORED so there for is open again for other dog(s).

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

they changed the wording because people would say the only way they are open again is if they were minused.

now it says scored

either plus, minus, circle or deleted and they have been scored and are available again

__________________
GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

quote:

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Originally posted by Frank M
Ok so if you + or - a dog doesn't that mean you have "scored" it? So in reality this position HAS been SCORED so there for is open again for other dog(s).

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2 dog cast

dog a struck for 100

dog b struck for 75

dog b comes in and is minused


he goes back in and strikes

this question is only for msinc no one else help him

What does he strike back in for ?

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NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

msinc

Please slow down & "cool your jets" about this ???. YOU'RE WRONG in your answer. 1 dog needs the 75 strike position & the other dog needs 75- for a handler miscall. He can then be struck for 50 when he does open on track. Take care, Ron.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't need any help...happy to answer this.
Two dog cast, A and B are struck in for 100 {1st} and 75 {2nd}in that order. Dog B quits and receives minus points. He then goes back in and is struck again...remember, we only have one set of strike points the track has been kept open. He goes back in for 50. Why 50??? Because two dogs have already been struck. 1st and 2nd have been used. Only 3rd and 4th remain, so he gets 3rd strike because it was the third time a dog has been struck. If he quits again, or lets say the A dog quits, you don't move the dog that was struck third all the way up to first and give the dog that was struck on the same track the fourth time a second. Eventually you get down to where only 4th strike is left if they don't minus out.
The biggest thing about all this is that you are cheating other casts when you allow more points to be counted than are available to receive.

Re: msinc

quote:

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Originally posted by Rolin Blues
Please slow down & "cool your jets" about this ???. YOU'RE WRONG in your answer. 1 dog needs the 75 strike position & the other dog needs 75- for a handler miscall. He can then be struck for 50 when he does open on track. Take care, Ron.

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