UKC Forums - Help with a dog

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Posted by English Man 97 on 10-21-2014 01:59 PM:

Help with a dog

My young female is doing very well but she has a problem sometimes and i dont really know what it is or how to fix it. I will cut her loose and she will strike and run truck very good but she will pull up sometimes and bark tree at some heavy laurels above her head or heavy brush? is she treeing from scent or what? anybody have this happen or know how to work on it? She is around 15 months or so. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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Cam Dotson
NITECH CH Dotson's Triple X Pocahontas

Posted by NiteHeat on 10-21-2014 03:35 PM:

switch her and send her on. When she gets some coons knocked out she will figure out what she is suppose to do

Posted by English Man 97 on 10-22-2014 01:41 AM:

Thanks! Anybody else got anything?

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Cam Dotson
NITECH CH Dotson's Triple X Pocahontas

Posted by jackbob42 on 10-22-2014 01:44 AM:

Sounds like she has seen too many caged/hung up coons and is treeing by sight.
Switch her and send her on.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Posted by Fisher13 on 10-23-2014 05:07 PM:

I wouldn't knock any out, hunt her harder, switch her and send her on, use your info gathered from treeing previous coon to pattern there movements, this will help you know what you dog is doing and increase your ability to keep her on coon. If she is backtracking and pulling up slick or pulling up short, knowing your general coon movements will likely help you figure this out, and you can make adjustments from there.

Posted by Fisher13 on 10-23-2014 05:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by NiteHeat
switch her and send her on. When she gets some coons knocked out she will figure out what she is suppose to do

Your thinking about this from a humans perspective, you can see the coon with your light but the hound cannot so you should knock it out and reward the dog this way they know when they are correct.

What you are over looking imo, is the fact that a hound doesn't use there eyes, they use there nose. In order to train a hound you need to think like one. Considering most hounds today are bred with plenty of tree, there is very little need to knock out a coon other then to reinforce a hounds prey drive. However if a hound doesn't have enough drive to begin with knocking coon to the dog won't have any long lasting improvements to begin with.
A hound doesn't need to see a coon or taste a coon to know it's there, it has its nose. The only way a hound gets better at using its nose, is practice or woods time. Certainly the occasional coon is a good thing, but the information gained from patterning coon, will do a lot more good for you and your ability to train a pup then knocking coon out to a pup will do.

EnglishMan

Clearly this pup has plenty of tree, the key to training a dog with to much tree or likes to pull up short, is a combination of things, correction when the dog is wrong, avoid petting the dog up when he is correct. Work on keeping a calm environment around the tree. This will help with the dog keeping his or her head, this allows them to make better decisions, and will help avoid bad habits like jacking, jealousy issues, possessive behavior, chewing etc. Pet this type of dog up when you get back to the truck anywhere other then the tree.

Use the same command when the dog is wrong, I like " not here" after awhile the dog will know what you are communicating, don't get frustrated if it doesn't sink in right away.

She could also be treeing on off game squirrels,mice,chipmunk,etc, if this is the case I find e collar corrections to be quite effective.

Finally and most important hunt her but off keeping her in thick coon for the first 6 months of her life, then start cycling in spots that have thinner coon and hunting her with other dogs. Worn boots make a coon dog, nothing else.

Posted by jackbob42 on 10-24-2014 12:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Fisher13
.........What you are over looking imo, is the fact that a hound doesn't use there eyes, they use there nose.......

They dang sure will use their eyes !

Squirrel dogs do it all the time.
You've never seen beagles on a " sight race "?

I've seen more than one dog that , on a bright night , that would stop and tree on every squirrel nest in the woods. I've also seen them tree on a big old hornets nest. And when asked about "all those caged coons" , the owner says, " How did you know I used caged coons ?" LOL.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Posted by English Man 97 on 10-24-2014 01:39 PM:

Shes only seen two cage coons, was that to much? they were at 7 months and 9 months and now shes 14 months. She doesnt do it all the time. just probably 1 out of 4 or 5 turn outs.

__________________
Cam Dotson
NITECH CH Dotson's Triple X Pocahontas

Posted by jackbob42 on 10-24-2014 11:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by English Man 97
Shes only seen two cage coons, was that to much? ......

I wouldn't think so.
Have been hanging up dead coons , or working up on a tree in any other way?

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Posted by john Duemmer on 10-25-2014 12:05 AM:

Lots of young tree minded dogs go through this, they make a lose get frustrated and start treeing,just go in let her know your not happy and administer just enough discouragement to send her on, the good ones figure it out pretty quick, the dumb ones never do.
This time of year the young coon are still sometimes traveling togeather and are up and down everything in the woods feeding and leaveing a bunch of scent. Lots of dogs that are usually pretty accurate can look dumb right now.
I never bought into the idea that you shouldnt give them the coon when they are right.When i am working on a dog that slicks to much i give them every coon they tree and make their life miserable when they miss, i want to create as much contrast as possible between right and wrong, and besides who wants a dog that falls apart when you harvest a few coon.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Posted by English Man 97 on 10-26-2014 02:50 PM:

Do you think praising with treats or something to let her know she did good when she trees a coon is a good idea and switching her when i know she didnt tree one?

__________________
Cam Dotson
NITECH CH Dotson's Triple X Pocahontas

Posted by Fisher13 on 10-27-2014 05:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by English Man 97
Do you think praising with treats or something to let her know she did good when she trees a coon is a good idea and switching her when i know she didnt tree one?

Tried it there usually so focused on the coon, they don't want anything to do with treats. They will be able to tell when your happy. Plus they have there nose and they can tell when there right. If you want to knock some out to her, knock out the coon she really has to work for and the ones where it sounds like she isn't a 100 percent positive, but she is correct and she does have the coon.

It's not the switching that is effective, it's the correction that lets them know that the coon isn't there and the follow through which is leading them on and communicating the track continues. This allows them to learn. When ever correcting a dog use as little force as possible, work your way through your corrections using more force each time. Over time she will learn the command not here, and you will be able to vocally correct her. If a switch is required use the command while switching, this way the association is made between the 2.
I think the main thing is just simply lots of practice, the more practice a young dog gets the more they will learn improve. If you hunt this dog by itself as much as possible, she will have bad nights and good night's, nights where you pry would give her away and other nights where you wouldn't sell her for a million dollars, but by the end of this season, she will be a totally different dog, and by this time next year, she will be even a better dog since then. I wouldn't get to caught up on the slicks just send her on GENTLY, and give her sometime, she will get faster and more accurate over time through lots of practice. Whenever you get frustrated just remember we can't do what they can, and take a deep breath, and smile.

I think the biggest mistake you could possibly make in the future is hunting her with another dog that can quickly turn her on to a bad habit, I've done it more then once, and so have many other guys. Other then that just keep her in the woods and hunt her by herself as much as you can stand.

Posted by ole hoss on 10-27-2014 07:35 AM:

Training a pup is time consumeing and u have got to understand them. Id bet this pup is treeing off of scent. Id say theirs some type of fruit their them ole coons are feeding on weather it be cherrys, persimimons paw-paws or what ever it may be. This is a young dog so u have to be careful with what u do cause this pup dont understand fully. Alot of old dogs will pull up short in these situations. As long as the pup aint makeing a habit of it i wouldnt worry so much right now. Continue to hunt the dog hard and worry more if it does the same thing this time next year. So many young dogs are ruined by handlers trien to make a world champion in one week!!!! Training a good dog takes time and dont put to much on them at once. You will blow their mind. It will get worse before it gets better.

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jason

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