UKC Forums - What Is The Difference???

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Posted by stxcoonhunter on 09-25-2014 11:20 PM:

What Is The Difference???

I would first like to say I dont want this to be a put down childs game of two great bloodlines. I have done a lot of research on both and have never owned one from either but would like to. Im talking about Echo (double springs, razoridge, bullet, white river) and the Mad Dog bloodlines. Both of these bloodlines have proved that they win a lot and are consistant in treeing coon. Im interested in yalls opionions of the differences of these two great bluetick bloodlines such as

cold, medium, hot nosed
track speed
mouth (tight, loose, just right)
how far out do they hunt BY THEMSELVES
bawl mouth, chop mouth
size of dog
how they do with tracks in thick cutover or briar patches
lay up ability
any aggressiveness (around tree, kennel, face bark, ect)
trailing type or run to catch

Posted by Adam Davis on 09-25-2014 11:33 PM:

popcorn

wish i had some popcorn so i could set back and watch the fur fly like i figure it will. In my thoughts your echo line you listed 4 different lines jmo though.

Posted by Wayne Valentino on 09-26-2014 12:10 AM:

hope ya get some straight answers, we don't have much of that stock near me, so I'm wondering too...

__________________
Fan of the of the Bragg and Vaughn Blues !! TREE OLD HUSSLER in Memory of DOC Householder... Rest in Peace Rev. Kenneth Adkins my dear friend !! Home Will's Creek Savage Sioux-Zee!!
Yeah, I competition hunt !! All Fall and Winter long.. My Blues compete with the local coon.. My Blues win a ton !!! We use and recommend MOONSHINER LIGHTS, Peggs , Ok.

Posted by BigRiverlilCoon on 09-26-2014 06:30 AM:

Double Springs, accurate - Razor Ridge, Brains - Bullet, quick hunters - White River, competitive
Mad dogs, never seen one go

The good ones have some of these things and some surface from each line mentioned.

good luck on your search for info/dog.

Posted by Mad-Dog on 09-26-2014 06:32 AM:

Mad-Dogs

Can't say much about the Echo dogs, haven't hunted with them since the early 90's. The Mad Dogs have the ability to take a cold track open here there and yonder before they get treed. These dogs do not stand on their head and don't take all night to get treed. You can usually tree them when they locate and they will hold a ton of pressure.

Most of these dogs open just right to tight, I don't need to know every where the coon has traveled, just interested in where he is at
These dogs usually go as far as they have to go to find a track or tree. They do not have to run a track into a tree before they get treed, I guess what I am saying is that they have the ability to wind or pick a cold tree and have the meat.

One of the big differences in these dogs compared to other lines is that these are looking to get treed when turned loose, some of the other lines are looking to run.

Most of these dogs have a good bawl to squall (some chop) on track, locating with a very distinct locate. changing over to a hard solid chop or a short bawl. They are bred to start treeing early, and many start as young as 3-4 months old(not just barking, TREEING).

These dogs usually run around 60-65 pounds on the males and50-55 pounds on the females. Most of them will be leggy which helps them get around in thick underbrush and down timber.

We do not try to breed for color, we breed for Tree-Dog first. When these dog get treed we want them to stay, right or wrong.

If you have any questions just give me a call, I will answer questions to the best of my ability...660-563-3710.........Tim

Posted by stxcoonhunter on 09-26-2014 01:43 PM:

Tim, Thanks for the good info. Sounds like the mad dog line still has a good nose and can work a cold track. I like that! I have noticed that there are people from far up north to georga to arkansas that have these dogs so they must do good in different types of terrain and climate. What would you say some faults or weaknesses are that you would like to see improved in the mad dog line? timid, shy, face bark, track speed, like to run trash when young, ect, ect......? Also i usually start my dogs mostly by themselves and hunt with other dogs only about a quarter of the time. As a majority how do they do about hunting out by themselves? All the blue dogs i have had dont seem to want to hunt out far enough for me by themselves but i have mostly had the old blooded dogs like Vaughn.

Posted by byrd, lance on 09-26-2014 02:29 PM:

Stx

The bunkhouse hunt is coming up. It's a buddy hunt where we each try to make it to Missouri and hunt with different hounds in the line once a year. Tim is better qualified to answer your questions but you are certainly welcome to come see them go if you would like. I have enjoyed meeting many bluetickers there. I like the way you are asking questions: I think that is an important part of progressing the breed. Thanks

__________________
Lance Byrd
Montevallo, AL
205-283-0477

Team Mad Dog
Mad Dog South

Grnitech Mad Dog All Jazzed Up
(2010 BBOA Zone 6 championship Queen of Hunt and High scoring dog, 2010 Alabama State BBOA Championship Queen of Hunt and High scoring dog, 2010 South Carolina State BBOA Championship Queen of Hunt, Qualified 2011 WI governors cup)

Grnitech Grch Grwch Mad Dog Psyco Talk to em Toby (sire and dam both quad grands, Finished to nitech and BBCHA, BBOA high scoring blue male 2011 Autumn Oaks, 2012 and 2013 Bluetick Days King of Water, 2014 BBOA youth nationals King of Water and Champion male, 2014 Alabama Hall of fame hunt King of Water, 2014 Bluetick Days Blue Hunt 2nd runner up, 3 nite ch wins over 1000 points) owned with Robbie & Lisa Brooks

CH PR Mad Dog Big Casino (2013 Illinois BBOA King of hunt, high scoring dog, First place registered Friday and Saturday night, 2016 Zone 1 Blue frost memorial King of Show opposite sex, BMOS friday and Saturday, 2017 Reunion Ch male Thursday and Friday, 2017 AL State Championship King of show)

Other wins: 2009 Zone 6 Championship Queen of Hunt, 2009 Zone 6 Championship Grch male friday and saturday. 2009 Zone 6 Championship Grnitech Friday, 2012 Zone 6 Championship King of Show and hunt cast winner. 2013 Zone 6 championship champion female.

Posted by Tom Jones on 09-26-2014 02:38 PM:

Re: popcorn

quote:
Originally posted by Adam Davis
In my thoughts your echo line you listed 4 different lines jmo though. [/B]

I agree with Adam. there is some of the same dogs behind the bloodlines you listed but that is about it. honestly I believe the names you threw out are mainly a kennel name and not really a line that has a nice dog behind them.

The Bullet dogs are pretty much like what Tim described for the mad dogs. They are extremely fast hunting dogs that are looking for where the coon is and you can tree them before they finish their locate. some have outstanding noses and know how to use it and some can be a lil warmer nosed. cowdog smarts!!

White River dogs- been a bunch carry this name do some winning, Phil Davis always has a winner and just recently bought Bocephus!! these dogs are a mix of smokey river and ucthman/Rambo primarily. you can bet that if a dog is carrying white river in front of its name it is a coondawg!!

Double springs/Echo-split tree, lay up ability 2nd to none. some can be a pain to start, some start very early!! under promoted by the founder. Can make very nice bobcat hounds also. They tend to not make as many trees as a lot of young dogs for the most part as they like to have a coon. 3 generations of world champion blueticks (nuff said)

Razor Ridge-has a web site showing their success. Not sure rather the dogs are being hunted as hard as they once was. they do go back to old echo and echo II. blasting Butch off Echo 2 was simply dominating one of the greatest purina coonhounds of all time Goose creek Slugger but was ran over in sept. and still finished 2nd just behind slugger. quick dogs on both ends and look good on the hardwood and plywood!!

There is lots of reading on this board if you will use the search feature. decipher through the bs. The echo thread is really good and not a lot of hype on it just some facts and proud owners. hope this help some but all in all I believe you will be ok with any of them. they are all throwing culls and all putting out some nice ones!!!

__________________
" an old wood burnin stove with no
natural gas "
405-471-7372

Posted by Slough on 09-26-2014 02:41 PM:

Re: Re: popcorn

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Jones
I agree with Adam. there is some of the same dogs behind the bloodlines you listed but that is about it. honestly I believe the names you threw out are mainly a kennel name and not really a line that has a nice dog behind them.

The Bullet dogs are pretty much like what Tim described for the mad dogs. They are extremely fast hunting dogs that are looking for where the coon is and you can tree them before they finish their locate. some have outstanding noses and know how to use it and some can be a lil warmer nosed. cowdog smarts!!

White River dogs- been a bunch carry this name do some winning, Phil Davis always has a winner and just recently bought Bocephus!! these dogs are a mix of smokey river and ucthman/Rambo primarily. you can bet that if a dog is carrying white river in front of its name it is a coondawg!!

Double springs/Echo-split tree, lay up ability 2nd to none. some can be a pain to start, some start very early!! under promoted by the founder. Can make very nice bobcat hounds also. They tend to not make as many trees as a lot of young dogs for the most part as they like to have a coon. 3 generations of world champion blueticks (nuff said)

Razor Ridge-has a web site showing their success. Not sure rather the dogs are being hunted as hard as they once was. they do go back to old echo and echo II. blasting Butch off Echo 2 was simply dominating one of the greatest purina coonhounds of all time Goose creek Slugger but was ran over in sept. and still finished 2nd just behind slugger. quick dogs on both ends and look good on the hardwood and plywood!!

There is lots of reading on this board if you will use the search feature. decipher through the bs. The echo thread is really good and not a lot of hype on it just some facts and proud owners. hope this help some but all in all I believe you will be ok with any of them. they are all throwing culls and all putting out some nice ones!!!

Good info, thanks

__________________
James Lawrence, Big Slough Kennels

Posted by everett on 09-26-2014 02:45 PM:

Info

About 4 years ago I called Tim with the same questions you are asking, Tim told me then that the best way to get the info I was looking for was to come go hunting several nights, that weekend I gassed up the truck and did just that, smartest thing I have ever done in terms of hounds, I would make the same suggestion to you.you are welcome to come to Arkansas and I will take you to the timber, or Take a trip to Mo. And Tim and Paul will do the same, I also suggest you do the same with any other lines of hounds you are interested in, I can sit and type all day long about how great my dogs are and how they do all the right things, Again the best method to finding what you are looking for is to go take a hunt or two, or three, your welcome anytime......Gerald

__________________
Gerald Everett/ Mad Dog South Central
[870] 820-4065
B.O.S.S. Vice President
Blueticks of the Southern States

TEAM MAD DOG "Hunt Hard Hunt Offten"
IN REMEMBRANCE OF MAD DOG TIM VAUGHN

GRNITECH pr' MAD DOG ANTi UP JOKER co winner of the all blue world championship, Sire of 2014 UKC world hunt high scoring Bluetick male(Grnitech pr' Walz Coontree Joker)

GRNITECH pr' Mad Dog coon Poppin
Wacko (Shellly) 2014 BBOA Arkansas State Hunt Queen of Hunt High scoring Grntch.
2015 zone 7 championship Queen of hunt

Grnitech Grch pr' Mad Dog Hey Jude 2008 National Bluetick Days Queen of hunt, 2013 ACHA Little world hunt 5th place overall.

pr' Mad Dog Two Gun Rhino (Astro x Jude)

Pr' Mad Dog Two Gun Doll Baby ( Astro x Shelly)
Critter Light co. Owner/Dealer

Posted by byrd, lance on 09-26-2014 02:52 PM:

Re: Re: popcorn

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Jones
I agree with Adam. there is some of the same dogs behind the bloodlines you listed but that is about it. honestly I believe the names you threw out are mainly a kennel name and not really a line that has a nice dog behind them.

The Bullet dogs are pretty much like what Tim described for the mad dogs. They are extremely fast hunting dogs that are looking for where the coon is and you can tree them before they finish their locate. some have outstanding noses and know how to use it and some can be a lil warmer nosed. cowdog smarts!!

White River dogs- been a bunch carry this name do some winning, Phil Davis always has a winner and just recently bought Bocephus!! these dogs are a mix of smokey river and ucthman/Rambo primarily. you can bet that if a dog is carrying white river in front of its name it is a coondawg!!

Double springs/Echo-split tree, lay up ability 2nd to none. some can be a pain to start, some start very early!! under promoted by the founder. Can make very nice bobcat hounds also. They tend to not make as many trees as a lot of young dogs for the most part as they like to have a coon. 3 generations of world champion blueticks (nuff said)

Razor Ridge-has a web site showing their success. Not sure rather the dogs are being hunted as hard as they once was. they do go back to old echo and echo II. blasting Butch off Echo 2 was simply dominating one of the greatest purina coonhounds of all time Goose creek Slugger but was ran over in sept. and still finished 2nd just behind slugger. quick dogs on both ends and look good on the hardwood and plywood!!

There is lots of reading on this board if you will use the search feature. decipher through the bs. The echo thread is really good and not a lot of hype on it just some facts and proud owners. hope this help some but all in all I believe you will be ok with any of them. they are all throwing culls and all putting out some nice ones!!!

I enjoyed this too. Thank you for taking the time to share. Lance

Posted by Slough on 09-26-2014 02:54 PM:

Re: Info

quote:
Originally posted by everett
About 4 years ago I called Tim with the same questions you are asking, Tim told me then that the best way to get the info I was looking for was to come go hunting several nights, that weekend I gassed up the truck and did just that, smartest thing I have ever done in terms of hounds, I would make the same suggestion to you.you are welcome to come to Arkansas and I will take you to the timber, or Take a trip to Mo. And Tim and Paul will do the same, I also suggest you do the same with any other lines of hounds you are interested in, I can sit and type all day long about how great my dogs are and how they do all the right things, Again the best method to finding what you are looking for is to go take a hunt or two, or three, your welcome anytime......Gerald

Very good advice.

__________________
James Lawrence, Big Slough Kennels

Posted by Mad-Dog on 09-26-2014 04:59 PM:

Mad Dogs

STX,
One of the things that some hunters have trouble with is the pups and young dogs want to do things on their own and are thought to be out of pocket. I have found that the only way to make sure that they are not out of pocket is to hunt them by themselves (you can't be out of pocket if you are the only dog in the woods).

When these dogs start they usually tree before they run track. They take very little encouragement at the tree, they make TREE DOGS.

I hope no one thinks of Mad Dogs as just a Kennel Name, we have been breeding this line of dogs for over 50 yrs. We have not been afraid to bring new blood in when we felt that it would compliment what we had. We have always intended to produce a better bluetick that is a pleasure to hunt or has what it takes to win on any level.........Tim

Posted by Vic Stoll on 09-26-2014 07:45 PM:

Re: Re: popcorn

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Jones
they are all throwing culls and all putting out some nice ones!!!

Now that right there is simple, straight forward, & most importantly, the TRUTH!

As already mentioned above, seeing with ones own eyes is believing! There is no better substitute

Good thread with some good reading!

__________________
Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky�s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

Posted by wakenda creek b on 09-26-2014 08:17 PM:

The bunkhouse hunt is a good one to come to to check out the Mad Dogs. It's a lot of fun with guys from all over hunting.

__________________
Brian Davis
Carrollton,Mo.64633
1(660)542-0932

Posted by Mad-Dog on 09-26-2014 09:00 PM:

Mad Dog studs:........Have semen on Grand Night John II, for future use.
1. Dual Grand Mad Dog Mo Smoke, Kansas (son of John II)
2. Dual Grand Niangua River Mad Dog Ranger, Mo.(John II son)
3. Dual Grand Boondock Mad Dog Cowboy, Mi.(presently in Mo.)(son of John II)
4. Grand Night Mad Dog The Coon Wacker, Wisconsin
5. Quad Grand Mad Dog Psyco Sid, Wisconsin
6. Grand Night Mad Dog Anti-Up Joker, Arkansas
7. Dual Grand Mad Dog Blue Astro, Mo(son of Sid).
8. Dual Grand Mad Dog Northern Zip (Dancer Bred) Alabama

Hope I haven't forgotten any one, if I did I blame it on the meds..........Tim...660-563-3710

All of these dogs ,except Cowboy, are reproducing a good percentage of coon dogs from each litter. The Cowboy pups are young but showing a lot of promise.........Tim

Posted by Trent on 09-27-2014 02:36 AM:

If you're interested in a pup or stud dog make sure to hunt with sire or dam, but preferrably both. Don't always believe everything you see on here and a bunch of backing up the product isn't always the truth. It's best to just let the dogs do the talking for themselves.

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1st, 1st, 3rd, 5th, and a 9th

Gr. Nt. Ch. North Star Blue Oakley (Rip)
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Posted by Slough on 09-27-2014 01:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Trent
If you're interested in a pup or stud dog make sure to hunt with sire or dam, but preferrably both. Don't always believe everything you see on here and a bunch of backing up the product isn't always the truth. It's best to just let the dogs do the talking for themselves.

The only thing I might add to that is, if this cross has been made before, try and find out who got some of those pups and talk to them or if possible go hunting with them. But always remember not all pups are gona turn out, so try and talk to several pup owners before making a decision. And also sometimes it is not the pup, different hunters want and look for different things.

__________________
James Lawrence, Big Slough Kennels

Posted by jason2579 on 09-27-2014 03:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Trent
If you're interested in a pup or stud dog make sure to hunt with sire or dam, but preferrably both. Don't always believe everything you see on here and a bunch of backing up the product isn't always the truth. It's best to just let the dogs do the talking for themselves.

No truer statement than this one right here and from young man that knows the bluetick breed. I found out when i first came to blueticks that there was way to many clicks within the breed and to many kennel names unwilling to step out their line of breeding cause differences or resentments against other lines for whatever reason. There was very few stud owners or gyp owners that cross on something that didn't have their blood in it or wouldn't breed cause they just hated the guys dog cause they hated the guy that had that line. Seems nowadays younger guys don't care so much and are going with what is working and producing and prove is in this years world hunt from the zones on up. I'd say look at pedigrees of those dogs and see whats in them. Never base your decision off ? Asked on the internet. Yes going hunting with them and go more than once. Those dogs may look like million dollars 1 night but can they do it every night. Jmo

__________________
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641 751 7545
Home of the Iowa River Blueticks
NT CH Bullets Iowa River Squirt
Five star state hunt championship 2nd place
Five star qualifier 1st place win.
Bbcha sectional high scoring male
World hunt qualified 2009
9th place open bluetick reunion
Davis's Iowa River Striker ( Squirt X J and N's Blue Night Sky)

BnJs Sugar Babe.
Hitting the comp hunts 2015

"Whatever works for you"

Posted by max destruction on 09-27-2014 03:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Trent
If you're interested in a pup or stud dog make sure to hunt with sire or dam, but preferrably both. Don't always believe everything you see on here and a bunch of backing up the product isn't always the truth. It's best to just let the dogs do the talking for themselves.

Most honest statement on this thread!

__________________
Jesse nappin
TEAM TREEDOGG!

Posted by Mad-Dog on 09-27-2014 08:56 PM:

In The Blood

One of the reasons the Mad Dogs have survived 50+ yrs is we do not put all of our support behind just one dog, we support the blood. Look back over the years and you will see many good hounds (from other bloodlines) advertised, once that dog is gone it isn't long before you hear nothing from that line. We have several branches within the line that allow us to make family crosses and not inbreed or to tight line breeding. We hunt what we breed, and usually breed what we hunt Not all of them make it, but a high percentage is worth following.............Tim

Posted by Trent on 09-27-2014 09:43 PM:

Hahahaha refer to my above post....

Posted by byrd, lance on 09-27-2014 10:26 PM:

Re: In The Blood

quote:
Originally posted by Mad-Dog
One of the reasons the Mad Dogs have survived 50+ yrs is we do not put all of our support behind just one dog, we support the blood. Look back over the years and you will see many good hounds (from other bloodlines) advertised, once that dog is gone it isn't long before you hear nothing from that line. We have several branches within the line that allow us to make family crosses and not inbreed or to tight line breeding. We hunt what we breed, and usually breed what we hunt Not all of them make it, but a high percentage is worth following.............Tim

Very useful insight. Thanks Tim

Posted by jason2579 on 09-29-2014 04:56 PM:

The only thing i can add to this post is that there is lines out there that have stood the test of time if you look at their peds. Smokey river been around for along time which let to bullet dogs. Jet breeding hammer breeding ucthman breeding all have been around for very very long time. When i was younger and I'm 40 now so 35 plus years ago i only knew of 4 lines of blues. Hammer, Smokey River, Ucthman, North star. Wasn't till i got in my teens till i heard of rambo echo and some others when i drew them at hunts further south. Jim smalings curlee female gave me a real education one night. I will say this there has been some stud dogs of the past that should been bred to a lot more than they were. Best advise giving here was from Trent. Go hunting with several different ones several times and some of their offspring as well. Then make your decision. Good luck to you.

Posted by rance56 on 09-29-2014 06:29 PM:

which lines would yall say that you hunt with more good ones than bad ones from that line

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