UKC Forums - Trouble with dog

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Posted by Mike1980 on 07-01-2014 12:52 PM:

Trouble with dog

I found am new to coon hunting.. I found a walker. He is very track minded. Actually caught a little coon. I can't get him to tree.. He will tree on a cage, just not real life in the woods. Been running him for about 2 months. I'm trying to buy a started dog to run with him. Any other suggestions?? At what point do I give up on him??

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 07-01-2014 01:20 PM:

IMO no man can get a dog to tree. Treeing is an instinct and happens because its bred into the dog to do so. Some dogs need an incident or an experience that helps them click and some are treedogs from then on. Some never tree, some tree too much, some sit down, some jack the tree, some stand stark still, some fight at the tree........most of all these things are bred in instinct and although there are ways to curb some of these activities, generally dogs are what they are. If you hunt the dog regular and put him in good situations for a good amount of time, he will either do it or he won't.

Good luck, but I will say that adding a started dog is NOT the way to go. It will likely just compound your problems. IF anything save up and buy an older experience dog for you start of coonhunting. It just makes like so much easier and more enjoyable. Coonhunting and dog training are two different things to me. Best of luck.

__________________
The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

Posted by hazier on 07-01-2014 03:40 PM:

NUMBER QUESTION IS HOW OLD IS THE DOG. IAGREE THAT TREEING IS NOT TAUGHT ITS BRED INTO HIM . GIVING HIM PLENTY OF OPPURTUNITIES TO TURN IT OVER. I WOULD ALSO LAY OFF THE CAGED COON, THAT JUST CAN BE OVER DONE , HE KNOWS WHAT HES AFTER. GIVE HIM PLENTY OF ENCOURAGMENT AND TIE HIM TO THE TREE .. HIS AGE IS PRETTY KEY

Posted by Mike1980 on 07-01-2014 03:53 PM:

Thanks for the responses..I think he is in the 1-2 year range. I found him in the woods. He was very skinny and I picked 172 ticks off him. From what I hear I just need to take him out as much as I can. I just don't know when I should give up on him. A friend of mine said he already would have given up, i think i should at least give him to the end of kill season.. And what do you do with a coon dog that won't tree???

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 07-01-2014 04:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mike1980
Thanks for the responses..I think he is in the 1-2 year range. I found him in the woods. He was very skinny and I picked 172 ticks off him. From what I hear I just need to take him out as much as I can. I just don't know when I should give up on him. A friend of mine said he already would have given up, i think i should at least give him to the end of kill season.. And what do you do with a coon dog that won't tree???

you probably found him in the woods for a reason.

__________________
The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

Posted by Surveyor on 07-01-2014 04:40 PM:

You leave him in the woods and hope some nice guy like you finds him and picks the ticks off him and gives him a home! NO, not really-that is not the right thing to do, but more than likely what someone did for you to end up with him. Hopefully you can/will just keep him as a pet or find someone who will. I got a feeling you are trying to train a dog someone else already gave up on.

__________________
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Home of UKC GR NT CH, PKC CH
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his littermate brother
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Gr Nt Ch Sheppards Northern Blue Goomba (Piazon X Dizzie) 14th place 2017 UKC world coon hound championship 100 purina point cast wins in 2018
and several other blueticks of lesser accomplishments

Posted by prostockpat on 07-01-2014 04:51 PM:

sorry

But they all don't make it.
Instead of leaving culls in the woods,there are more humane ways.

__________________
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Posted by hazier on 07-01-2014 04:57 PM:

I AGREE .. SOMETIMES IN OUR SPORT TOUGH THINGS HAVE TO BE DONE . ABOUT 2-3 MORE HUNTS AND NO INTEREST TREEING PROBALY WOULDNT MAKE THE RIDE HOME

Posted by paridgerunner on 07-01-2014 05:39 PM:

I hope you find the answer to this question because I'm in the exact same position as you are, except I bought my hound, but having the same thing, will track like crazy, but really won't tree at all, but trying to decide the same thing on when to give up, I've had mine about 2-3 months, hunt her a couple days a week.

Posted by R BERES on 07-01-2014 05:57 PM:

Pull the Trigger!!!:-)

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GR.CH MAIN STREET ZOEY)( 1st and 2nd win)

Ch 'Pr' Beres' Prowlin Danny Boy ( GrNite Ch. Pr'Brushcreek Prowlin Billy x Pr' Cowels' Big River Ann)RIP miss you buddy!

Posted by Fisher13 on 07-01-2014 07:36 PM:

Wow you guys have given some classy responses, no wonder our sport continues to shrink!!! Nothing like helping out a new comer to our sport.
If you found him in the woods he could be a running walker,fox hound, coyote hound, hard to say what he is. Living in Ohio, though there pry is a better chance he is a treeing walker.

Here's what I would do, get your self fresh dead coon. Lay out an easy drag, while your dog is in the box.
Let him out and see if he will tree it. If he tracks it to the tree but doesn't tree it, tie him up at the tree, tease him with it, see if you can get him treeing by sight now that he can see it. Once he is worked up and treeing, leave him tied and make a longer drag. Let him go again, this one he should tree by himself of he does let him have the drag to chew on for a little, then take it away before he gets bored. I would do this one or two more times to make sure he has it down.

Then show him a live coon, once he is barking on it good, hang it up in a tree, let him tree on it.
Later that week cut it loose across a field so he will want to chase but don't let him go until after a couple minutes and the coon has a good start. I would wet the coon down for this step, he should track and tree it.
Once you have these steps accomplished he should be able to tree coon in the wild. He may not do it the first night, but he will eventually.

If he can't accomplish the first two steps there isn't much of a point in taking him to the wood!!!

There are exceptions but this a good starting place. If he never takes to treeing you could pry start running fox or coyotes with him, or give him to a hunter who does. With out knowing his exact age its hard to say how long to give him. I would stick with him, and start back at square one, this will help you judge how much the previous owner worked with him. A lot of guys own company dogs, and many pup don't get the time they deserve. It's quite possible your dog has only had 3 or 4 nights in the woods.

Posted by prostockpat on 07-01-2014 07:45 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fisher13
]Wow you guys have given some classy responses, no wonder our sport continues to shrink!!!

Go visit a few dog pounds.Most will have a hound or 10.Instead of culling the low lifes leave them to fend for themselves.Or put them on here for sale as "top hounds" just needs hunted...lol

There's probably a reason it was left.If the dog was worth anything to its prev. owner,probably would have a collar w/contact info and tracking collar on it too.

Posted by prostockpat on 07-01-2014 09:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by toe cutter
the last thing I would do is buy a started dog and hunt it with the dog you found. you will ruin your new started dog.
if you want to keep the found dog for a project that's all up to you. I always advise a new coon hunter to buy a good old solid finished dog . the dog will teach you more than any man will. once you learn, then if you want you can tackle the job of trying to train one. a lot of people consider what your found dog does as a started dog.
buy you a older coon dog that was and still is a real coon dog that trees coon. after its all said and done you will be glad you chose the older coon treeing hound to start with.

Good advice!!!
That's what I did "back in the day"!
Redtick female,wish I could have her back today.I was 15,she was 5 and taught me alot,and we won alot{3hr hunts}.I didn't know the "rules".....leash lock,pitch,lie,blind,or buddy system,etc.
Just called my dog.

Posted by Mike1980 on 07-01-2014 09:51 PM:

Thanks for all the good advise. I will work with him for awhile, and hope for the best. If I can't get anywhere with him ill try to give him to a more experienced hunter that can maybe train him. The hard part is my daughter is in love with him..

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 07-01-2014 11:26 PM:

Re: Trouble with dog

quote:
Originally posted by Mike1980
I found am new to coon hunting.. I found a walker. He is very track minded. Actually caught a little coon. I can't get him to tree.. He will tree on a cage, just not real life in the woods. Been running him for about 2 months. I'm trying to buy a started dog to run with him. Any other suggestions?? At what point do I give up on him??

if he will tree a cage he can tree.just drive the rds find some possums threw it out after a little while he will get tired of possums and switch over.

Posted by Mike1980 on 07-02-2014 12:22 AM:

Possums???? And what do I do drag them and hang em??

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 07-02-2014 12:33 AM:

Please do not use possums.....that makes no sense.

__________________
The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 07-02-2014 12:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Ashbaugh
Please do not use possums.....that makes no sense.

when you come from my st you use what ever climbs.

Posted by Fisher13 on 07-02-2014 04:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by prostockpat
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fisher13
]Wow you guys have given some classy responses, no wonder our sport continues to shrink!!!

Go visit a few dog pounds.Most will have a hound or 10.Instead of culling the low lifes leave them to fend for themselves.Or put them on here for sale as "top hounds" just needs hunted...lol

There's probably a reason it was left.If the dog was worth anything to its prev. owner,probably would have a collar w/contact info and tracking collar on it too.

FACT: In our culture there is a special place for dogs!!

FACT:" Going around telling new people in the sport, to shoot there piece Junk!!!" Doesn't give the sport a good image, it doesn't help our friends that fight for our rights legislation to hunt our hounds, and certainly doesn't the help the new hunter that is trying to get into the sport!!!!!

Pat,I realize you had a little more tact in how you approached this persons question. However we as a community can not tolerate our fellow hounds men publicly posting things like "just shoot it."

The general public won't stand for and neither should we!!!! We are our own worst enemy.

Posted by Fisher13 on 07-02-2014 05:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mike1980
Thanks for all the good advise. I will work with him for awhile, and hope for the best. If I can't get anywhere with him ill try to give him to a more experienced hunter that can maybe train him. The hard part is my daughter is in love with him..

Training a coon hound isn't hard, its just long and drawn out and takes many hours, but most of it is common sense.
The good news is you live in area where coon should be easy to find. You need get your hands on some coon. Taking a pup to the woods and expecting it to tree coon with out any prior training is expecting a lot out of a pup and more times then not you will be disappointed. Instead of putting your time and energy into putting him in the woods, put your time and energy into finding coon yourself, good hunting spots and trapping some nuisance coon. Once you get a hold of one, you can then expose it to your pup. Once he is capable of tracking and treeing a drag or boxed coon, then he is ready for the next step a wild coon.

Needing an older dog to hunt a pup with is an old wise tail, and can often cause more problems then good. Your better off just training him yourself.

keep the lessons short but daily, that is the key and make it fun for him, like a game, just like you would if your trying to teach children they learn best if taught through a game.

Posted by hootowlman on 07-02-2014 05:40 PM:

Dude, I'm having the same issue with a 1 year old that is out of a World champ dog and has 2 other world champs in its pedigree. I guess most of you would kill it also...RIGHT... Your dog needs some fur man. Any idiot dog can tree on a tree. It takes a good dog to figure a track out PERIOD. If it can run track give it some time. YOUR dog needs fur in its mouth. You said it would tree on a cage. Get the dog fired up on the coon in the cage. Let the coon go close to a tree and let the dog watch it climb. It should tree, the dog is young and doesn't realize they go up a tree. If he does tree give it some fur and love it up the Whole time it trees and after is gets the FUR. Hunting it with another dog will not help much Trust me I did the same thing. If you do when the other dog trees tie your dog back and give the coon to the other dog. DO NOT give your dog fur unless it trees.My pup had never treed period at all. I did the let the dog watch it climb and here are the results click on pic for video.

Posted by ole hoss on 07-02-2014 10:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hootowlman
Dude, I'm having the same issue with a 1 year old that is out of a World champ dog and has 2 other world champs in its pedigree. I guess most of you would kill it also...RIGHT... Your dog needs some fur man. Any idiot dog can tree on a tree. It takes a good dog to figure a track out PERIOD. If it can run track give it some time. YOUR dog needs fur in its mouth. You said it would tree on a cage. Get the dog fired up on the coon in the cage. Let the coon go close to a tree and let the dog watch it climb. It should tree, the dog is young and doesn't realize they go up a tree. If he does tree give it some fur and love it up the Whole time it trees and after is gets the FUR. Hunting it with another dog will not help much Trust me I did the same thing. If you do when the other dog trees tie your dog back and give the coon to the other dog. DO NOT give your dog fur unless it trees.My pup had never treed period at all. I did the let the dog watch it climb and here are the results click on pic for video.

Have you had him out since? has he treed in the wild? curious cause i got a pup that will track to the tree and just stand on the tree and wont bark!!! tie him back shoot it out and he goes nuts. but like you said i wont let him have it till hes treed!!!

__________________
jason

Posted by Mike1980 on 07-03-2014 04:19 PM:

Yea I've had him out, going again tonight. I will give him some time. He is always first strike and a hard hunter. Just wont finish on a tree. I agree that he needs some fur. Just can't shoot one until season. I hope he comes around, he has the best bawl I've heard. Sounds beautiful, very distinct from other dogs..

Posted by hootowlman on 07-03-2014 07:05 PM:

I'm telling you man catch a coon and let the dog watch it climb. My pup wouldn't even think about getting on a tree and you seen the results from what I did. If not click on the pic. You really just don't understand how track minded this dog is. I have hunted her with my other dog and her hit a track and him end up treed and she could care less. She will cut circles, backtrack and was all over HE#@ trying to figure it out where it went and my other dog be hammering treed and have the coon. The video was the first ever coon she had watched climb. She would still circle a little and end up right back at the tree barking. I have not treed one with them since I did that and have only had her out once since and they didn't pull a bark. So I can't say for sure she is cured. But that is the first tree this pup has ever barked up....and she has been in on treeing ALOT...and never barked on tree PEROID.... But for sure if it doesn't bark at a tree DO NOT give it fur because you are only rewarding its bad behavior and it will never get any better.

Posted by hootowlman on 07-03-2014 07:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ole hoss
Have you had him out since? has he treed in the wild? curious cause i got a pup that will track to the tree and just stand on the tree and wont bark!!! tie him back shoot it out and he goes nuts. but like you said i wont let him have it till hes treed!!!

I have only had her out once since I got her to tree on the coon and they didn't hit anything. But I plan on hunting them sat night so I will let you know how she does. In my opinion and from what everyone has told me if you can get dogs like these track minded dogs lined out and treeing they make SUPER accurate dogs. That kind of make since because 9 out of 10 dogs tree then it takes them a while to figure out the whole tracking thing. Ours are the opposite they got the tracking part NAILED But, not the treeing part. 1 things for sure we definitely don't have to worry about SLICK TREEING IDIOTS that's for sure.....HAHAHA!!!!!!!

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