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Are swamp hounds superior?

I personally believe that a swamp is by far the most difficult, unforgiving terrain for a hound to trail and tree a ringtail. Therefore, a GRNTCH hound that can consistently show the fur in a swamp is head and shoulders superior to a GRNTCH hound that earned his stripes in other terrains. My buddy disagrees with me, and says that a true coondog will get it done regardless of where you drop the tailgate. I just don't believe you can bring a hound that was broke and hunted, let's say the mountains of Carolina to the swamps of Carolina with much success. However, I do believe a swamp broke hound can go ANYWHERE and shine. What are your thoughts?

This is a just who you ask type questions. I have one that performs well in a swamp but I be **** if I want to try her on the mountain side!

im with your buddy on this one!!!! a real hound gets it done any were the tail gate drops!!! jmo

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jason

BALANCE ! high and dry, big rivers, snow, and swamps, a good dog gets it done anywhere !

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Hoggard Black & Tans
GrNiteCh Ky River X Man

ive often thought this same thing about taking my mountain hounds to the swamp, and feared they wouldnt perform in such a dramatic terrain change.

About 10 years ago, a great friend of mine moved to the out skirts of francis marion national forest in eastern SC where in most places, the water would reach shoulder depth.

We cut the dogs loose in what was probably the biggest swamp in the area and man them dogs treed coons in there like they'd hunted it their whole lives. They were running coons like they were tied to them. And now, I make a trip down there every year to hunt.

The problem wasnt that our mountain dogs couldnt tree coons, but rather us mountain boys had a very difficult time trying to get to them once treed.

On a different note, I do recall a hunting trip i took one time in the swamps of eastern NC, (close to the outer banks), and my dogs looked absolutly PATHETIC. But hey-we all know these dogs have a rough time on certain nights regardless of where we put em.

So I guess to give my opinion on the initial thread question:
NO swamp hounds are not superior.

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Allen Storie
Boone, NC
828 387 1801

Have heard about and seen mountain dogs cone here to eastern nc and look like pups again they dont know what to do with the water some do most dont if you can train a dog and tree coon in these hell holes you can tree anywhere unlike dogs from other places most cant handle a swamp the real ones can thats why if I was to buy a dog for high dollar he would have to be proven in the southern swamps

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And its not just wet in eastern nc most woods are so thick some places you have to crawl through it dont make the superior but I guarantee theres more swamp dogs that can get it done anywhere then the other way around and I know ppl from up North that lived here that says the same thing if you can tree coon here you can tree them anywhere

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Mama Tried Kennels Home of pr Mama Tried applepie moonshine
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Pr Mama tried's Joe Dirt

A coon dog is a coon dog no matter where you turn it loose. Some are better than others but to be labeled a coon dog it needs to be treed somewhere with a coon no matter where it's dropped

.

There are only 3 reasons to worry about conditions somewhere else. And by the way, YES they are different and different dogs handle them differently.

1. If YOUR BUYING A DOG from a location that is completely different than your location. It's only money but spend enough and you will learn to find out if the dog can operate in your conditions before final payment is made. Most likely you will just learn where to NOT buy a dog from.
2. If YOUR GOING TO A NIGHT HUNT in a totally different environment. It would pay to do some home work and hunt the area with some friends.
3. IF YOU JUST WANT TO TALK about Northern dogs vs Southern dogs on a message board.

Spend enough money in either category 1 or 2 above and you will learn there is a difference. Which is best, heck I don't know. I just want the money I spend to operate where I cut it loose at!!

I AM NOT GOING TO SAY WHAT YOU SWAMP HUNTERS SAY IS NOT TRUE FOR I HAVE NEVER HUNTED IN THAT TERRAIN BUT ON A STRIP MINE WHERE THERE ARE 100 FEET HIGH WALLS WHERE THE COAL HAS BEEN REMOVED AND YOUR DOG NEEDS TO GET UP OR OVER TO CONTINUE TO TRAIL THE COON AND THATS ONLY HALF OF IT IF YOU ARE HUNTING IN PIKE COUNTY OR ANY OF THE EAST OR SOUTHEASTERN COUNTIES OF KENTUCKY MOST THE TIMBER HAS BEEN CUT OVER AND THERE IS NO DOG ALIVE IN SOME INSTANTS THAT CAN TREE A COON IN AREAS LIKE THAT. ANOTHER TUFF ROAD TO HOE IS AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN LOGGED OUT COON CAN TRAVEL OVER CUT DOWN TREE TOPS FOR 500 YARDS BEFORE HE HAS TO SET FOOT ON GROUND IF HE CHOOSES OR GO UNDERNEATH WHERE IT IS SO THICK DOGS WILL JUST BARK TREED BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET ANY FARTHER.
ONE MORE OBTION HUNTING ON TOP OF CLIFFS IN THE SAME AREAS QUITE A FEW DOGS DIE EVERY YEAR BY RUNNING FULL SPEED OVER 200 FEET HIGH CLIFFS YOU SHINE YOUR LIGHT OVER THE CLIFF AND ITS A 100 FT TO THE TOP OF THE FIRST TREE ON THE BOTTOM.
JUST ONE QUESTION ABOUT THE SWAMPS IS WHEN A COON IS WET IT HAS THE BEST SCENT OF ALL SO WHY DON'T LAY UP DOGS JUST FALL TREED AND HAVE THE COON?

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CARL FOX,JR.
BOONEVILLE,KY

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING INSTEAD
OF HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS!!!

It will take MOST dogs that have not hunted in the swamps a night or to to adjust, Just as it would take those swamp dogs a night or two to adjust to the fences in some of the midwest states.

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Dennis Robinson
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swamps

ya I hate turnin loose where there is alot of backwaters and food n such where the coon are plentiful

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" an old wood burnin stove with no
natural gas "
405-471-7372

tough

Hunting with a buddy in his territory the other nite,with high water,mud,grass 5 feet high,and also after bear hunting in the Wisconson cedar and tag elder swamps for 15 years,i said to my buddy,i believe these swamps are the toughest condictions there is for dogs to hunt in.

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Always be yourself because the people that matter dont mind and the people that mind dont matter.Rock River Plotts

swamps

Depends on the swamps and the dogs, Lots of Backwater can deal any hound missery, i hunt around a lot of ponds and creeks , havent hunted in the river botom in a while but if the river bottom is dry thats what we call easy huntin here, the creeks are full of blow overs and briar beds , but even down in the lower ends of the river Deltas around the bays the Hurricanes have really done some damage to the big trees and its tuff down there ...

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Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into

Ray Hudson

FIRST POSTS MENTIONS GR NT CH'S. SO IS A NON COMPETITION SWAMP COONHOUND BETTER THAN A GR NT CH MOUNTAIN OR CORNFIELD GR NT CH.

KIND MAKES YOU THINK.

WHAT ABOUT THE HTX SWAMP DOG OVER GR NTS FROM ELSE WHERE. THIS KINDA ADDS TO THE CONVERSATION ABOUT HTX VS GR NT BEING BETTER DOGS.

JUST CURIOUS ABOUT HOW YOU ALL THINK ABOUT THIS.

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CH. PR. MCMILLANS TREE ROCKIN BRANDY
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That's a good topic. I would say, Not really the superior dog vs another dog as in a all a round better dog . I would say that the dog would do better in that environment because that is what it is used to hunting in. Just like my Eastern Ky Big mountain dogs verses your flat land swamp dogs. In my area of steep mountains they would probably not do very well not because I have the better dog. It's that my dogs are hunted 3-5 nights a week in these conditions and yours are not so they are not used to the terrian. So in my opinion they are not superior dogs but they are the better dog for that region because that's what they are used to hunting in...... So that's not saying your dogs couldn't tree a coon here. But my dogs would look better in this terrain because that's all they know.

quote:

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Originally posted by hootowlman
That's a good topic. I would say, Not really the superior dog vs another dog as in a all a round better dog . I would say that the dog would do better in that environment because that is what it is used to hunting in. Just like my Eastern Ky Big mountain dogs verses your flat land swamp dogs. In my area of steep mountains they would probably not do very well not because I have the better dog. It's that my dogs are hunted 3-5 nights a week in these conditions and yours are not so they are not used to the terrian. So in my opinion they are not superior dogs but they are the better dog for that region because that's what they are used to hunting in...... So that's not saying your dogs couldn't tree a coon here. But my dogs would look better in this terrain because that's all they know.

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Home of;

Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Gr.WCh. Pr. McMillans Blue Crystal
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Gr.Nt.Ch. Pr. McMillans Blue Hawk
Nt. Ch. Pr. McMillans Blue Rage
all are gone now but will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN


CH. PR. MCMILLANS TREE ROCKIN BRANDY
CH. PR. MCMILLANS MIDNITES STINGIN SADIE

quote:

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Originally posted by rmcmillan
HOOT
YOU MAKE SOME GOOD POINTS. I WILL TAKE MT DOGS. THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE HERE IN WESTERN MARYLAND. BUT I LIKE THIS CONVERSATION. NOBODY HAS GOTTEN THERE FEATHERS RUFFLED YET. JUST GOOD CIVIL CONVERSATION.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Carl Fox
I AM NOT GOING TO SAY WHAT YOU SWAMP HUNTERS SAY IS NOT TRUE FOR I HAVE NEVER HUNTED IN THAT TERRAIN BUT ON A STRIP MINE WHERE THERE ARE 100 FEET HIGH WALLS WHERE THE COAL HAS BEEN REMOVED AND YOUR DOG NEEDS TO GET UP OR OVER TO CONTINUE TO TRAIL THE COON AND THATS ONLY HALF OF IT IF YOU ARE HUNTING IN PIKE COUNTY OR ANY OF THE EAST OR SOUTHEASTERN COUNTIES OF KENTUCKY MOST THE TIMBER HAS BEEN CUT OVER AND THERE IS NO DOG ALIVE IN SOME INSTANTS THAT CAN TREE A COON IN AREAS LIKE THAT. ANOTHER TUFF ROAD TO HOE IS AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN LOGGED OUT COON CAN TRAVEL OVER CUT DOWN TREE TOPS FOR 500 YARDS BEFORE HE HAS TO SET FOOT ON GROUND IF HE CHOOSES OR GO UNDERNEATH WHERE IT IS SO THICK DOGS WILL JUST BARK TREED BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET ANY FARTHER.
ONE MORE OBTION HUNTING ON TOP OF CLIFFS IN THE SAME AREAS QUITE A FEW DOGS DIE EVERY YEAR BY RUNNING FULL SPEED OVER 200 FEET HIGH CLIFFS YOU SHINE YOUR LIGHT OVER THE CLIFF AND ITS A 100 FT TO THE TOP OF THE FIRST TREE ON THE BOTTOM.
JUST ONE QUESTION ABOUT THE SWAMPS IS WHEN A COON IS WET IT HAS THE BEST SCENT OF ALL SO WHY DON'T LAY UP DOGS JUST FALL TREED AND HAVE THE COON?

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quote:

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Originally posted by hootowlman
Your talking about my area man...Born, raised, and coon hunting Pike co KY... I have to agree I'm sure it's tuff in the swamps. But when you start at around 700 ft elevation and top out at 3200 ft that's a steep climb and rough on a hound. Throw in Logging, old coal mines, Mining breaks, cliffs, High walls, slush ponds, strip mining, and a very low coon population. These old mountain hounds and men are pretty tuff.....

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jason

A coon smells the same in the swamps as it does in the hills, or the corn fields, or the strip mines, etc. You would think a Kentucky Coon smells exactly the same or pretty similar to a Florida Coon. Yet some dogs struggle when you take them out of their comfort zone, or what their used to. Seen dogs look AMAZING in Hamilton, OH and absolutely struggle down here Willard, KY. and VICA VERSA. Hunting conditions and hunting terrain plays a BIG PART. You take a dog that's been hunted hard in patch woods and corn fields the majority of their life and go and drop them up a holler and they hit a coon and it heads to a clear cut, more then likely they are going to struggle. The same goes with a dog that's been hunted in warmer weather most of it's life and you go and drop them on a 15 degree night and the ground is froze over. IMO a Swamp Hound is no better then a Hound that's been hunted around Strip Mines or Clear Cuts. Average Dogs will tree you some coons but will struggle in strange hunting conditions and different terrain. While a COON-DOG can adapt to these changes and overcome them. The CONSISTENT WINNER'S/COON DOG'S TREE COON/WIN EVERY WHERE YOU TAKE THEM.

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There is a difference in hunting the swamps and hunting dry land with creeks, branches and rivers. I've seen guys come here with supposely coon and bear dogs that had trouble in these swamps and bays, but if you thought the dogs had problems you should see the grown men that have trouble getting through this stuff.jmo

I AGREE COON IS A COON AND DOGS SHOULD BE ABLE TO TREE IN MTS AND SWAMPS. TERRAIN WILL MAKE THEM STRUGGLE UNTIL THEY GET IT DOWN.

HOW DO YOU ALL THINK A SWAMP WATER DOG WOULD DO WITH A HIGH SWIFT MOVING WHITE WATER STREAM IN MTS?

AS FOR MEN IN DIFFERENT TERRAIN, I WILL PICK MTS OVER SWAMPS. WE HAVE STEEP TERRAIN, CLEARCUTS, GREEN BRIARS, MULT FLORA ROSE BUSHES. SNOW THAT CAN GET WASTE DEEP, ( PRETTY MUCH SCREWS HUNTING ) WHEN THAT HAPPENS. STRIP MINES.

I HAVE HAD DOGS THAT SWIM RIVERS AND PONDS. DO NOT THINK THEY WOULD MAKE IT IN SWAMPS.

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Home of;

Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Gr.WCh. Pr. McMillans Blue Crystal
Ntch. GrCh. Pr. McMillans Blue Magic
Gr.Nt.Ch. Pr. McMillans Blue Hawk
Nt. Ch. Pr. McMillans Blue Rage
all are gone now but will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN


CH. PR. MCMILLANS TREE ROCKIN BRANDY
CH. PR. MCMILLANS MIDNITES STINGIN SADIE

They all need time to adjust

I've seen good dogs look stupid until they learn or adjust to different conditions.
The most challenge I've seen, that some dogs can never adjust to is dry conditions. When it hasn't rained in 2 months and dust is everywhere. That is a real test of a dogs nose and tracking ability.

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Elbridge Redbones
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Coondog has to be able to tree coons where ever you hunt them but swamp land is a difficult terrain to tree coons in IMO. I dunno of all the dogs I've hunted up here in the swamps the odd one took to them right away, some adjusted and became better at hunting in swamps and some just never could when they got into very much water.

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Autumn Clements

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