UKC Forums - Heated debate about using the Garmin at our club last night.!!

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-- Heated debate about using the Garmin at our club last night.!! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928375889)

Posted by justus on 05-17-2014 01:57 PM:

Heated debate about using the Garmin at our club last night.!!

Our master hounds said it was a club choice if you could use your Garmin during the hunt or if you had it only on time outs??? I've been to several hunts with people having them out anytime and most all time. So can you have the Garmin out anytime you want or am I wrong ? Masterhounds said if he Hurd anyone using it he would scratch them we argued all night..

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Posted by CoonBusterWV on 05-17-2014 02:38 PM:

Thats stupid. Law of the land is you can use them. Someone like that shouldn't even be a MOH.

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Posted by Smoke on 05-17-2014 02:40 PM:

There seems to be a lot of incompetent MOH out there.

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Posted by MikeR on 05-17-2014 02:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Smoke
There seems to be a lot of incompetent MOH out there.

X2 and it seems to be the ones who had their license for some time, want to live in the past and not keep current with changing rules.

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Posted by patches9452 on 05-17-2014 02:55 PM:

That's one thing I would have reported to ukc. The moh can't make his own rules

Posted by perry co cooner on 05-17-2014 03:02 PM:

Re: Heated debate about using the Garmin at our club last night.!!

quote:
Originally posted by justus
Our master hounds said it was a club choice if you could use your Garmin during the hunt or if you had it only on time outs??? I've been to several hunts with people having them out anytime and most all time. So can you have the Garmin out anytime you want or am I wrong ? Masterhounds said if he Hurd anyone using it he would scratch them we argued all night..

Please tell me this was or at least will be reported to UKC.

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Posted by Bradley E. Hall on 05-17-2014 03:06 PM:

All the MOH had to do was read the MOH role call that each one reads before the drawing of the dogs, its right their for the Hunt director/MOH to read and must read before the calling of cast. Sometimes I cant believe the stuff.

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Posted by JiM on 05-17-2014 03:11 PM:

Va. seem to have a bit if a chronic problem with this sort of thing for some reason. I noticed that 4 out of 5 on the banned-from-hunt - director list are from Va.

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Posted by justus on 05-17-2014 04:02 PM:

The hunt was in WV but only mins away from VA. It went back and forth I just had to leave cause it wasn't doing no good talking to him. He said next time I hear someone using em I'll scratch em and all you can do is fill out a complaint . I told em I was going use mine no matter what he said. You just had been there to listen to em

Posted by John D on 05-17-2014 04:11 PM:

Its amazing what the incompetence level is, out there. Not only with MOH, but also with hunters who have comp. hunted for DECADES.

I think some of these guys get by with doing something against the rules a time or two and in their mind that's they way the rule really is. Then, others learn from them and the problem just continues.

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Posted by kenney Clark on 05-17-2014 05:17 PM:

Let him scratch you. He won't be moh for long. Some moh think they have more authority than they got. When acually they have very little. Garmin rule is nation wide. Use them when u see fit.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 05-17-2014 06:36 PM:

If you know the MOH name and what club it was at, report it. MOH 's everywhere have a hard time because of the few like this guy. It is very obvious he didn't read the checklist sent in the hunt packit either, because the telmentry info is part of it. This kind of stuff has to stop.

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Posted by msinc on 05-17-2014 11:42 PM:

"MOH 's everywhere have a hard time because of the few like this guy."

Absolutely true...and as far as a MOH having very little authority....I have found that when a MOH is right he has plenty and UKC will back him up. But when he is wrong UKC will not back him at all. No MOH can or should even try to change, alter or delete rules, period!!!
I have been a MOH since about 1987. One of the things I have learned is that you can often "head things off at the pass" just by saying a few words regarding the trending current problems going on in general or at the particular club having the event.
Back in the 80's about all I had to comment on was scratching fighting dogs. These days it seems like its always something...use of telemetry, treeing style, calling time out for anything, etc. It is a strange thing because fewer people are going to hunts but the rules are constantly getting bent more and more.
It's bad enough when a competitor has to win by minusing fellow cast members dogs for reasons he dreams up but when the person solely responsible to see that it does not happen does it.....
The real problem with all this and my biggest question is: if you can log on to a computer, get to the UKC forum and type up a complaint here why cant you do it directly to the UKC where it will count??? On the other hand, the OP is probably the only person that bothered to complain to anyone...everyone else that witnessed this miscarriage was happy to go home and forget about it. Is that what the one idiot meant on the other post about cheaters when wrote we need to "put on our big boy pants and quit whining"???

Posted by cartwright on 05-18-2014 03:13 AM:

It wasn't at _the Sandy River Sportsman Club of Bradshaw was it?

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Posted by blackflagginit on 05-18-2014 03:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by John D
Its amazing what the incompetence level is, out there. Not only with MOH, but also with hunters who have comp. hunted for DECADES.

I think some of these guys get by with doing something against the rules a time or two and in their mind that's they way the rule really is. Then, others learn from them and the problem just continues.

having drawn out of the same clubs and hunted with the same people as John has for at least a few of those decades......I have to say he is right. from what I saw the problem comes in 2 areas...1) locals who only go to a hunt or 2 a year and only then at the closest clubs ( so there experience comes from just a handful of casts and 0 from accualy reading/understanding the rules) 2) the other few who hunt every weekend and just try there best to run ruff shod over the cast when they draw the first type (and usualy get away with it).......clubs are supposed to pick judges based on there ability to fallow the rules to the letter and have the integrity to do just that no matter WHO it helps or hurts in the quest for the win........but the reality is a MOH usualy has the choice of giving the card to type 1 (doesn't have a clue) or type 2 ( twists the rules to win).......Ive seen my share of incompetent or just plain corrupt MOH's too.........and a few who knew the rules backwards and forwards and ruled by them to the letter

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Posted by cartwright on 05-18-2014 03:57 AM:

They get by with because no one files a complaint. Complaining among others doesn't get anywhere. If you want it corrected file a complaint otherwise shut up! If you do file a complaint and get no response then the Registry isn't worth having. In this particular case in my opinion they will advise him of the rule . Although nothing about it seemed to have been handled right. Being it is a new rule I don't think that they would do more than that. JMO . Why was it not read out before the hunt did he use the old version or just decided to make his own rules. If so he should be suspended. .. Again JMO... If no complaint was filed the members and or hunters of that club are no better the MOH is. I used be the secretary of a local club everyone wanted to complain about this or that but never had the nerve to mention it at the club meetings so I told them to stop complaining to me if they couldn't discuss it at the meetings. It only takes one jerk to take the fun out of the sport. But someone has to man up without that it will never change. I am interested in how it turns out...

Posted by Robert Johnson on 05-18-2014 04:41 PM:

If it isn't put in writing on the coreect paper and sent in to the office, it DID NOT HAPPEN! Plain and simple is the fact. Be a man or woman about it and write it up. Something as simple as a telementry rule should be known by all in the world of UKC hunting by now. An MOH has a responsibility to the club and hunter who has him/her there to know the rules; the CURRENT ONES, and not only know, but how they apply. In my opinion if they do not want to stay current on the rules, then they should not be allowed to be an offical until their want level is back in the proper place. MOH's responsibilities are big and broad. There is no room for what happened here.

Sure, we all can be caught wrong at times. It is called being human. It is also called being very dumb when you are not a big enough person to admit it and get it right for the sake of the event. It is very very sad to say, but i see a time when, like another KC, we are going to have to have a REP on call for such as this. There is just no room or excuse for a UKC licensed offical being that bad.

Posted by justus on 05-19-2014 07:27 AM:

I'm calling ukc Monday to file a complaint..will see what happens

Posted by TBO kennels on 05-19-2014 02:56 PM:

I agree with the master of hounds. I think hes a hero. I know hes wrong acording to the rules but the rules are just wrong. UKC has turned into a Garmin fest. Retarted! Put your Garmins away unless theres a time out.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 05-19-2014 05:29 PM:

rules can't be wrong.

Posted by RANDY GIBSON on 05-19-2014 05:50 PM:

Theo you causing trouble again?

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Posted by h gatlin on 05-20-2014 12:33 AM:

what did UKC say

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Posted by youngwalkerman on 05-20-2014 06:05 AM:

I am all for the garmin rule its a good tool to have on you not for treeing your dog or nothing but its nice to have on your side to till if they are on roads or anything call a time out and save your dogs life I don't see why people make such a big deal about this it 2014 not 1960 change is good

Posted by Tim Toler on 05-20-2014 12:30 PM:

If they were used like the rules say is one thing... as in another post I have read a gentleman says that his dog was minused because the garmin showed that his dog moved... well that isn't using them like the rules states... they aren't suppose to be used to do ANY type of scoring whether it be for + or =.. I know now they are saying that Garmin is coming out with a collar that will not have the training features built into it for the Alphas... but that puts the Alpha owners right back to having to wear two collars once again..

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Posted by TBO kennels on 05-20-2014 12:30 PM:

Because the whole cast is staring at the Garmin screen the whole hunt. Checking the 5 to see if there dog is coming in or to know which way to walk to gain an unfair advantage during the 6 minutes. Or which way to walk away and listen instead of shining a tree. Its junk. BULL CRAP BULL CRAP BULL CRAP. Put your Garmins down and listen for your dog.

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