UKC Forums - Score this tree?

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-- Score this tree? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928370206)

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-03-2014 06:15 PM:

Score this tree?

3 dog cast, all dogs are struck and treed.
We arrive at the tree which is hollow at the bottom, and before the dogs can be handled dog A pulls out a coon, they all pile on and kill it.
None of the dogs have left the tree, and the tree is now slick.
We know we can plus their strike points useing 3c.
How are their tree points scored?

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Posted by Max LeBleu on 04-03-2014 06:18 PM:

Delete

Posted by GA DAWG on 04-03-2014 06:31 PM:

Minused.

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Posted by high ridge on 04-03-2014 06:50 PM:

Happened to me at SS. PANEL ASKED WHERE THE COON WAS WHEN JUDGE SAID HANDLE DOG. I said ground they ruled to minus tree. Plus strike. In ukc I would say hole rule since tree hollow and you witness dogs at hole. Plus strike points

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Posted by Rolin Blues on 04-03-2014 06:52 PM:

Minused!!!

In your dreams!! + strike, Delete tree & finish hunt. Take care, Ron.

Posted by Dogwhisper on 04-03-2014 07:13 PM:

Circle.

Posted by runnin rebels on 04-03-2014 07:13 PM:

SCRATCHED, no coon to be killed or trees to be climbed etc rule

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Posted by bgs2009 on 04-03-2014 07:23 PM:

Ive only been in two night hunts so I am by all means a rookie when it comes to competition hunts but I sure hate the way a dog can have the meat, everybody knows it, and still can not get the points because of a technicality. I wish there was a rule where the "honor rules" plus "common sense" combined to do what was right.

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Posted by krocket on 04-03-2014 07:29 PM:

Had this happen to me at a large event Master of Hounds plus the track an misused the tree an said I know it sucks guys but that's the way it is and we were all good with it we all wasn't sure about the call

Posted by hilltopkennels on 04-03-2014 07:29 PM:

U arrived at tree saw all 3 dogs treeing and saw coon pulled out? Id vote to plus it...ud plus it if u looked in and saw the coon in there the dogs just saved u a step.jmho

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Posted by Bob Hennessey on 04-03-2014 07:30 PM:

Coon hound competition hunts> common sense, that is an oxymoron.

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Posted by shorecooner on 04-03-2014 07:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by runnin rebels
SCRATCHED, no coon to be killed or trees to be climbed etc rule

That's a Handler related scratching offense you're referring to there.
6-p: For climbing or cutting trees or disturbing a place of refuge.
6-q: For intentionally killing coon or other game.

You can't scratch dogs for catching coons...

Here's a twist...

Points will be plus:

3-b: When dog is declared struck and treed and coon is seen other than in tree, dog declared treed to receive strike and tree points. Dogs not declared treed, strike points only.

Posted by joey on 04-03-2014 07:55 PM:

Anyone that has had there tree minuse for this same thing in UKC or the other KC got screwed. Its no different than a hole in the ground. Plus strike delete tree.

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Posted by jacobhills on 04-03-2014 08:00 PM:

Plus it both ways and move on if you acctually seen the dogs pull it out of the tree. Plus strike delete tree if you just seen the dogs next to the tree and not pull it out. Thats they way I I I think it should be scored.

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Posted by mauser06 on 04-03-2014 08:04 PM:

That's a caught coon. Plus strike and delete the tree points.

Had a pack on a tree...we thought a fight broke out... Ran in to find they had it up a sapling and knocked it out and stretched it...same thing..we deleted the tree and plusses the strikes and went hunting again..

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Posted by mauser06 on 04-03-2014 08:05 PM:

And in the scenario....the tree isnt slick its a circle. Obviously there is a hole where the coon was hiding...so could also plus the strike and circle the hole...

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Posted by high ridge on 04-03-2014 08:06 PM:

Michael I agree it cost me $125 to get that ruling. 25 for question. 100 for appeal. Thing is we seen coon in tree small sapling dog knocked out. I could have handled her but took time to shake mans hand for moving on and she knocked it out. Then guy I shook hands with seen he had it now if scored that way. So we went to club I lost. Took it like a man and hunted next nt

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Posted by Terry Adams on 04-03-2014 08:10 PM:

Re: Score this tree?

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
3 dog cast, all dogs are struck and treed.
We arrive at the tree which is hollow at the bottom, and before the dogs can be handled dog A pulls out a coon, they all pile on and kill it.
None of the dogs have left the tree, and the tree is now slick.
We know we can plus their strike points useing 3c.
How are their tree points scored?

I may score this wrong, but I'm plussing it both ways. I'm not going to minus the dogs for doing the right thing here.
What would you do if this was a pleasure hunt, would you scold the dogs for doing something wrong.
That's what's wrong with the hunts now days, it's become too technical and the common sense has been taken out.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 04-03-2014 08:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mauser06
That's a caught coon. Plus strike and delete the tree points.

Had a pack on a tree...we thought a fight broke out... Ran in to find they had it up a sapling and knocked it out and stretched it...same thing..we deleted the tree and plusses the strikes and went hunting again..

I'm on the mauser06 bandwagon.

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-03-2014 08:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Anyone that has had there tree minuse for this same thing in UKC or the other KC got screwed. Its no different than a hole in the ground. Plus strike delete tree.

A hole in the ground.... Tree points may be circled 5a... or plussed 3b.... or minused 4g...Nothing in the rules about delete.

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Posted by joey on 04-03-2014 08:30 PM:

I misspoke John I meant its no different than them pulling it out of a hole in the ground.

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-03-2014 10:36 PM:

I like delete, seems to do the least harm in this situation, i just cant find a rule to justify doing it.
If you delete this one are we gonna delete when we see a coon bail before shine time starts? NOPE its a bad break just like this one.

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Posted by joey on 04-03-2014 10:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
I like delete, seems to do the least harm in this situation, i just cant find a rule to justify doing it.
If you delete this one are we gonna delete when we see a coon bail before shine time starts? NOPE its a bad break just like this one.

Nope by the rules they will be minus, but in your scenario they had a hold of the coon before you handled them. If you would have handled them and started the shine time and then the coon came out and was caught. The tree would have been plussed and not deleted. We know that when dogs have made contact with a coon that it is considered a caught coon. So why would that not justify your scenario?

Posted by Jackson87 on 04-03-2014 11:04 PM:

I'd say plus it both ways just cause it was just doing what a coondog should.Also agree with Terry.It seems whoever is judging will twist the rules in his favor so his dog can get ahead.What ever happened to honesty and intergrity?

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-03-2014 11:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Nope by the rules they will be minus, but in your scenario they had a hold of the coon before you handled them. If you would have handled them and started the shine time and then the coon came out and was caught. The tree would have been plussed and not deleted. We know that when dogs have made contact with a coon that it is considered a caught coon. So why would that not justify your scenario?

Because i cant find anywhere that UKC. has said that tree points can be deleted except a previously scored tree or a tie vote between circle and minus.

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