UKC Forums - CHV- A puppy killer that most probally know nothing about

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Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 02-15-2014 04:01 PM:

CHV- A puppy killer that most probally know nothing about

I'm going through the toughest thing I've ever experienced with dogs right now. The puppys are starting to die 1 at a time. We have lost 6 out of 10 now and I'm starting to worry that we might end up losing the whole litter. What is killing them is something I never even new existed and I'd be willing to bet a lot of people have never heard of it.
It is Canine herpes virus - CHV or its also refered to as Fading puppy syndrome. If you don't know about it and you breed dogs I'd strongly suggest you google it and educate yourselves. I'll give a quick summary of it now.
1st off the canine herpes virus is one of the most common things there is. Everything I've read about it says that 50 to 70% of every dog has it. With coonhounds that are around other dogs more then most I'd bet that % is substantially higher. With adult dogs and puppies over 3 weeks old it doesn't really effect them at all and they build immunity to it fairly quick. They will allways be a carrier of it, but you'd never even know they had it. Where the problems come is in my particular situation. Apparentley my Maggie female didn't have it yet until just recently. She must have gotten it sometime just before she was bred, when she was bred or after she was pregnant so she hadn't had a chance to build anti-bodies against the virus.
Therefore some of her newborn pups got it. When pups under 3 weeks of age catch it there is nothing you can do. The pup will be dead within 48hrs of seeing the 1st symptoms and again there is nothing you can do.
My wife and I have been trying to quaratine any pups at 1st sign of any symptoms and we are doing everything possible to keep all of them from getting it and dying. The problem is that some have had it and spread it before we even seen any symptoms. The only good thing we can get from what is happening is that now that Maggie has had it, it won't be a problem in any of her future litters.
Again, I strongly suggest that anyone who reads this researchs CHV and learns about it so they don't have to bury has many pups as I'm having to.

__________________
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(R.I.P.) GRNITECH CH 'PR' WATTS FLATS FATTY PATTY
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GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' WATTS FLATS JUMP'EM UP JEB HTX-3 (DNA-P)
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(R.I.P.) GRNITECH 'PR' WATTS FLATS MUDDY CREEK MAGGIE HTX-2 (DNA-P)
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+ Upcoming:
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Posted by RON WOLTER on 02-15-2014 05:42 PM:

Adam

Make sure you have [[ heat ]] [[ under ]] NOT A HEAT LAMP - HEAT RISES - I notice a lot of guys would say they
have them in there warm basement [[ BUT ]] down on that floor put a thermometer & if it dosent say 70 I guarantee you will lose pups, mother cant give enough heat when next to them when pup s belly is in cold serfice , that's a big temp change after coming out of mothers stomach
@ 100 = 102.5 // PUT HEAT MAT UNDER A PALLET
LEAVE ON FOR 2 DAYS BEFOR SHE IS HAVING HER PUPS
HAVE PLYWOOD ON THAT WITH SIDE WALLS 2.5 FT.
COVER[ HALF WAY ]WITH CARDBOARD SO HEAT STAYS
IN AREA == THIS WILL HELP - BIG TIME -

__________________
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Redcoat

Posted by on 02-15-2014 08:17 PM:

That's awful Adam! I hope things turn around for you, and thanks for educating the rest of us.

Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 02-15-2014 11:12 PM:

Re: Adam

quote:
Originally posted by RON WOLTER
Make sure you have [[ heat ]] [[ under ]] NOT A HEAT LAMP - HEAT RISES - I notice a lot of guys would say they
have them in there warm basement [[ BUT ]] down on that floor put a thermometer & if it dosent say 70 I guarantee you will lose pups, mother cant give enough heat when next to them when pup s belly is in cold serfice , that's a big temp change after coming out of mothers stomach
@ 100 = 102.5 // PUT HEAT MAT UNDER A PALLET
LEAVE ON FOR 2 DAYS BEFOR SHE IS HAVING HER PUPS
HAVE PLYWOOD ON THAT WITH SIDE WALLS 2.5 FT.
COVER[ HALF WAY ]WITH CARDBOARD SO HEAT STAYS
IN AREA == THIS WILL HELP - BIG TIME -

Thanks for the advice, Ron. But this is not the first litter of pups I've had. Your telling me basic knowledge stuff for raising a litter. The pups have allways been off the floor in a raised whelping box and have been kept as warm as they could possibly be kept without killing them from heat. Nothing, not even extreme heat will kill CHV in a pup. There is only one treatment that is known and that is taking blood from an adult dog that has recently built up immunity to the virus and has a HIGH # of anti-bodies in their blood and giving the pup a blood transfusion with their blood. Most vets will not even do this because once a pup has the virus internal damage has already taken place and the pup will have major problems the rest of their life even if they do survive. You should research this virus yourself. Most vets recommend that if a pup has the virus the most humane thing to do is nothing and just let them pass away.

When people read this post please keep in mind that I've been around hounds long enough to know a couple of things and also my wife has a college degree as a vet tech so we are not totally incompitent. I'm not trying to be a smarta**. The only reason I'm posting about this virus is to try and help educate others about it. more then likely it will never effect most and if your smart you'll be hoping your dog does already have CHV and most likely it does. It just happened to be that my female was one of the few that didn't and caught it at the worst possible time and it passed to her pups before she built up immunity to it. Any females I have in the future will be exposed to the virus anyway I have to do it long before their bred in the future. This is the only way to guarantee this doesn't happen to you. There is a vaccination that does just that in Europe, but isn't approved in the states. Why????? I don't know.

Why hasn't anyone heard of this before. Well I dare to speculate it is because when a few have had the exact same situation that we're having they probally assumed it was Parvo. In one way I kind of wished it was. Atleast Parvo is treatable when caught early enough and only has a 20% mortality rate. Where as if a pup under 3weeks old gets CHV theres nothing you can do, but watch them die.

Posted by RON WOLTER on 02-16-2014 12:02 AM:

Never

To old to learn= Just trying to help , { if not you, }
some one else it might help, I hope you don't lose any more this cross should make great reds, & thanks 4 the info. that I just got from you.good luck with them

__________________
Ron Wolter
Redcoat

Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 02-16-2014 03:36 AM:

Re: Never

quote:
Originally posted by RON WOLTER
To old to learn= Just trying to help , { if not you, }
some one else it might help, I hope you don't lose any more this cross should make great reds, & thanks 4 the info. that I just got from you.good luck with them

I do appreciate you trying to help, Ron. I'm just a little touchy right now with whats going on. I'm pretty sure we're gonna lose all the pups. We lost another tonight.
The info you gave is good info and I'm sure many people could benefit from it. I Thank you for trying to help and caring enough to try.

Posted by Sawblade on 02-16-2014 01:16 PM:

Adam

I lost a litter the same way once but I blamed it on the fact that my heat lamp had went out for 8 hours. All my pups died in the first 10days . Maybe I had CHV and didn't know it, really makes me wonder now.
This is a bad deal for you buddy, hope you can keep at least one alive for yourself. Thanks for all the info your giving on this problem. I have not heard of it before. Good luck and I'm sure I will be seeing you at some hunts.
Keep your chin up man you have always had a kennel full of fine dogs ,this won't stop that from continuing.

__________________
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Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
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NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-17-2014 04:17 PM:

Adam, I lost a litter of pups like this once several years ago. All my Vet could say was that they had "some sort of virus" but that it wasn't Parvo.

Posted by timber hunter on 02-18-2014 07:19 PM:

Lost

a couple litters when I was early into breeding, one in the 80`s and 1 in the 90`s. Once I bought a female off a well known breeder in the early 90`s. He told me that she had lost a litter earlier, when I bred she lost that litter as well. A month later she died, she had a problem with hip displacia (I was unaware of). The vet told me to put her down. The fellow I bought her from gave me my money back on her. I am not sure if she had CRV or just some sort of infection from the other problem. From what I have read all dogs are subject to CHV and the risks of ongoing problems are extremely minimal. I feel really bad about the loss of these puppies. Grieving with you Adam. Was really looking forward to this cross!!! Hang in there buddy, John

P.S. I did speak with Dean Bitzel about this and he said it was not something that I needed to be concerned about with RED. He said with Maggie it was just bad luck or timing of when she was exposed to the virus!!

Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 02-20-2014 03:37 AM:

Re: Lost

P.S. I did speak with Dean Bitzel about this and he said it was not something that I needed to be concerned about with RED. He said with Maggie it was just bad luck or timing of when she was exposed to the virus!! [/B][/QUOTE]

Thank's for your sympathy, John. The female that you had back in the day sounded like she had some major problems and CHV wasn't part of it. CHV does not effect anything over 3 weeks of age much if any at all. Maggie is in good health and ready to be hunted again now. Also remember I told you the same thing that Dean told you on the phone when I talked to you too. Its good to hear Dean agrees also though. I got all my info from Vet colleges, vet associations and other VERY reliable sources. When I don't know about something in life that affects me its in my nature to learn everything about it possible. Guess that's just the way I am. Lol.
It is looking like there is gonna be 3 males that make it. We still have them all completely isolated so they can't cross contaminate each other incase one of them still has the virus and just isn't showing symptoms yet. I should be able to still get you that male if you want it though. I'll try and give you a call in the next couple of days and talk to you about it. Thank's, Adam.

Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 02-20-2014 03:57 AM:

Re: Adam

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
I lost a litter the same way once but I blamed it on the fact that my heat lamp had went out for 8 hours. All my pups died in the first 10days . Maybe I had CHV and didn't know it, really makes me wonder now.
This is a bad deal for you buddy, hope you can keep at least one alive for yourself. Thanks for all the info your giving on this problem. I have not heard of it before. Good luck and I'm sure I will be seeing you at some hunts.
Keep your chin up man you have always had a kennel full of fine dogs ,this won't stop that from continuing.

Thank's, Kelly. Its looking like 3 males might make it. They don't fit into my future breeding plans, but we're still gonna keep one anyhow. Maggie only comes into heat once a year so my future breeding plans for a female out of her will be delayed another year. That's all it will be though, just a delay.
Thank's to everyone who has replied. I hope this post has raised awareness about CHV. I have also put a post on the general forum about this virus. I've had to learn most things in my life the hard way. I guess this is just another lesion learned.

Posted by Brian Jennewein on 02-22-2014 02:03 AM:

Adam is this something we can have our hounds tested for?As the owner of a stud dog we always ask for a negative brucellosis test before breeding our male to any female.Maybe the people with the females should be asking for a negative CHV test on the males.Just a thought,I had never heard of this either and have been raising pups for quite a while now.Sorry for your loss Adam.

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Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 02-22-2014 05:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Jennewein
Adam is this something we can have our hounds tested for?As the owner of a stud dog we always ask for a negative brucellosis test before breeding our male to any female.Maybe the people with the females should be asking for a negative CHV test on the males.Just a thought,I had never heard of this either and have been raising pups for quite a while now.Sorry for your loss Adam.

Hi, Brian. Really the only time to worry about CHV is when you have a female that hasn't had it yet and catches it right before being bred, during breeding or during her pregnancy. Its very rare for this to even happen because most coonhounds probally already have it and have built up an immunity to it and in that case it won't effect a litter of pups. You can test for it, but in a lot of cases you can get a false negative because the virus goes dormit even though the dog is still a carrier of it.
To stud dog owners it should be of no concern. IMO. More then likely just about every stud dog out there already has it. Everything has to line up at the worst possible timing for it to effect a litter like it did Maggies. In the future I plan on making sure any other females I have that I plan to breed purposely get CHV long before being bred so they have immunity to it. It sounds a little crazy, but from everything I've read this is the best way to make sure it doesn't effect a litter. All of the articles I've read say that 50 to 70% of ALL DOGS have CHV and that with show dogs and dogs that are around several other dogs that % goes way up. So its almost a guarantee that with coonhounds there is no avoiding it. Its just a matter of making sure your female doesn't get it at the wrong time like mine did. Again I recommend that everyone google Canine Herpes Virus and read the articles themselves. Hope this helps. Take care, Adam.

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