UKC Forums - Garmin Alpha in competition?

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-- Garmin Alpha in competition? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928343882)

Posted by ryanlangmaid on 10-21-2013 07:05 PM:

Garmin Alpha in competition?

I saw a post about this a while back but couldn't find it so figured I'd ask myself. Is the Garmin Alpha allowed in UKC or PKC competition hunts?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-21-2013 07:11 PM:

PKC. yes.you can carry in the off position.
UKC. no. they can wear the collar but the handheld must be left in the truck.

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Posted by ryanlangmaid on 10-21-2013 07:14 PM:

Ok Thank you!

Posted by Ralph Williams on 10-21-2013 08:46 PM:

I thought you could carry the alpha as long as you took out the shocker prongs.?.?

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Posted by Paul Frederick on 10-21-2013 08:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Williams
I thought you could carry the alpha as long as you took out the shocker prongs.?.?

You cannot carry the Alpha at any time, with or without the prongs in place.

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Posted by jimmy on 10-22-2013 12:11 AM:

Does this mean that the alpha cannot be used until the rest of the dogs are caught in accordance with rule # 20?

Posted by GA DAWG on 10-22-2013 01:47 AM:

You can't tell me alphas are not being used ever weekend right now. Might as well make it legal.

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Posted by Paul Frederick on 10-22-2013 01:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jimmy
Does this mean that the alpha cannot be used until the rest of the dogs are caught in accordance with rule # 20?

No it does not. The Alpha can be used to recover your dog on a time-out just like any other tracking device. The training features cannot be used until the provisions in Rule 20 are met.

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
You can't tell me alphas are not being used ever weekend right now. Might as well make it legal.

Michael, we have been working on a new policy concerning the Alphas for some time now. We still don't have a timeline for when it will be rolled out, but we are doing our best. We want to make sure it is beneficial to hunters and also to our sport as a whole.

Just because people are breaking the rules "every weekend" doesn't mean we need to have a knee-jerk reaction to accommodate those who are operating outside the guidelines that UKC has put forth. That's like legalizing drugs because "they are being used every weekend right now." Granted, this isn't as bad, but it is still against the rules.

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Posted by RandRHolcomb on 10-22-2013 01:34 PM:

You have to keep the Garmins power off when hunting so why does it mater if its a alpha ,220,320 or any other system out there you can't use them untill time out

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Posted by Tim Toler on 10-22-2013 01:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RandRHolcomb
You have to keep the Garmins power off when hunting so why does it mater if its a alpha ,220,320 or any other system out there you can't use them untill time out

Because they say that the training side of the Alpha is the difference...

People has said that it isn't fair because if a time out is called and I can tone my dog and get it back to me quicker then the people that just has a tracker and has to walk to them, but everyone wants the Alphas left in the truck so now I have to walk back to the truck to get mine while the others using say the 320 can go ahead and power his on and start towards his dog while I am heading to the truck.

This sports is a lot about the honor system and lets face it I don't care what any KC does they will be people break the rules... how do you stop people from breaking rules?? You make the punishment harsh enough that a person wouldn't dare get caught... such banned for life... and the all the KC's work together that if you can banned in one you are banned in all of them...

or how about if banned you are banned from all KC's and the dog also... a person cant register litters from said dog that was involved and such.

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Posted by RandRHolcomb on 10-22-2013 03:27 PM:

Who wants to be without your tracker when time out is called your in a strange woods the cast goes back to the truck leaves you to find your dog and the truck

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Posted by perry co cooner on 10-22-2013 03:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
You can't tell me alphas are not being used ever weekend right now. Might as well make it legal.

I can't and won't believe there is cheating in sanctioned hunts.

Half the people think people are cheating most of the time the other half think its very rare. Which is it?

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Posted by Darrell Eads on 10-22-2013 04:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Toler
Because they say that the training side of the Alpha is the difference...

or how about if banned you are banned from all KC's and the dog also... a person cant register litters from said dog that was involved and such.

that's stupid

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Posted by Tim Toler on 10-22-2013 05:59 PM:

Mr. Eads,

Thanks for the nice comment... thanks for adding a meaningful comment to the conversation.

The first comment you have quoted by me is what was told to me by others..

If you make the punishment stiff enough then would make a person that was going to cheat think twice about it. Lets see what happens right now... I cheat in an KC no big deal I will just hunt the other KC... or I get caught cheating in a KC so now all I do is change the ownership of my dog to my partners name only... or nephew, cousin, child so forth... do biggie keep on with keeping on... you make it stiff enough you will get peoples attention...

Then again I think the banning and such is pretty simple for me because I am not going to cheat... so wouldn't matter what rules they would put in place it wouldn't affect me.

Posted by RandRHolcomb on 10-22-2013 06:24 PM:

More rules will not stop a cheater just like more gun laws will not stop gun violence it's already illegal to shoot people it's against the rules to have your Garmin on people have them on in the hunts !!!!

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Life's short so get off the couch and either drop the tailgate and tree some coon or sit back on the bank and do some fishing!

Posted by Tim Toler on 10-22-2013 06:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RandRHolcomb
More rules will not stop a cheater just like more gun laws will not stop gun violence it's already illegal to shoot people it's against the rules to have your Garmin on people have them on in the hunts !!!!

Will agree with you about the gun laws... the problems isn't in the gun laws it is in the punishment for violence with guns... someone can kill someone in cold blood and what do they get now?? 2 or 3 years then some probation... there will always be gun violence and cheaters but you can slow it down with harsher punishments... then again that is in my opinion.

Posted by RandRHolcomb on 10-22-2013 08:19 PM:

I don't totally disagree with you I just hate to see more rules I think there are to many now!

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Life's short so get off the couch and either drop the tailgate and tree some coon or sit back on the bank and do some fishing!

Posted by GA DAWG on 10-23-2013 01:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by perry co cooner
I can't and won't believe there is cheating in sanctioned hunts.

Half the people think people are cheating most of the time the other half think its very rare. Which is it?

Well its kinda rare as far as cheating by the hunting rules as far as calling your dog and misusing an so on but it is not rare as far as gps transmitters go. Believe it or not. I ain't lying

. I do think some folks that don't get on net or have the Ukc website even know using a alpha is against the rules..Have I saw any scratched for it? No. I guess the scratch happy folk ain't figured it out yet either lol.

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Posted by Tim Toler on 10-23-2013 01:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by RandRHolcomb
I don't totally disagree with you I just hate to see more rules I think there are to many now!

I think you and I are basically on the same page... not necessarily saying add new rules just change the ones that are in place to be more harsh of a punishment...

I would agree that to many rules is just as bad...

Posted by perry co cooner on 10-23-2013 03:07 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Well its kinda rare as far as cheating by the hunting rules as far as calling your dog and misusing an so on but it is not rare as far as gps transmitters go. Believe it or not. I ain't lying . I do think some folks that don't get on net or have the Ukc website even know using a alpha is against the rules..Have I saw any scratched for it? No. I guess the scratch happy folk ain't figured it out yet either lol.

Ok I got it now! I just recently started using a Garmin Astro (just pleasure hunting) and man are these GPS trackers ever nice! It's a shame how many hours of my life I wasted trying to find dogs then I got a wildlife TRX3 tracker and man I thought it couldn't get any better. The GPS trackers will spoil a man.

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Posted by Craig Harris on 10-23-2013 04:34 AM:

Why not push garmin to produce a collar that works on alpha system that us not shocker capable

Posted by Bob Hennessey on 10-23-2013 04:51 AM:

I think Garmin made the DC-50 to use with the Astro. So when UKC okayed Garmins in comp. there would not be a problem with the collars being able to be used to control your dog like the Alpha can. Maybe the next update of the 50 will work on the Alpha. They sure are an improvement over the 30's and 40's. with the Astro now.

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Posted by mark booth on 10-24-2013 01:21 AM:

I don't see what the big deal is about not being able to use the alpha the rules are the rules I hunt a lot of hunts with my 320 without any problems

Posted by huntforlife on 10-24-2013 10:25 PM:

so because i can kill a deer with an old smoke pole means i cant upgrade to a new rifle? not trying to be disrespectful but that reason make no sense to me.

Posted by GA DAWG on 10-24-2013 10:47 PM:

Yep and most coonhunters of today want the latest and greatest of everything. I don't have one but see no reason one can't be used. I don't go looking for everyone to cheat.. specially shocking a dog. Only a select few would try that. Ukc will probably change the rule the first of the yr anyhow

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