UKC Forums - Why and What?

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- Blueticks (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=48)
-- Why and What? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928336797)

Posted by ov_blues on 09-05-2013 09:54 PM:

Why and What?

If I wanted to add a trait to my dogs, and they were Walkers, I would have a pretty good idea where to go. Say it was "tree" that I needed or "track", there are bloodlines of dogs that a majority of Walker breeders would say to go to like Rat or Wipeout/Clover. It also seems like their isn't any problem with those lines being identified with having those traits. So, why is so easy to discuss some of the known traits within the Walker bloodlines but if a strength or weakness is discussed within the Bluetick breed, all heck might break loose?

Probably asking too much, but this is just for discussion, not to see if I can get all heck to break loose.

What lines or individual dogs do some of you think would be known for being well above average on a particular trait ( tree, go, independence, locating ability, accuracy, etc. ) and would improve that trait on most other bloodline?

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Posted by Mad-Dog on 09-05-2013 11:29 PM:

Traits

John,
Ole Turk(John II) has been crossed on most of the popular bloodlines and he is producing early starting, hard treeing stay put treedogs that can win in the big hunts.........Tim

Posted by Tom Jones on 09-06-2013 01:32 AM:

i'll bite

Mr. Smith, I am a okies so I favor the Smokey river dogs. Bullet 2 should of had 1000 pups but he is a Tad tuff haired and monkey faced and alot of folks don't like that. They missed out. The old dog threw hounds that anybody could train to their way of hunting. Very fast on track and true one bark tree dogs. I can't say enough about him.

Another was double springs Pete. Troy just will not promote a hound. Pete was really reproducing and nobody knew it tell it was to late, same with echo 2. Echo 2 percentage was over 13% and he only had 100 pups or so.

I like alot of both on the top and bottom side and it really hasn't been done up close near enough. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION

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Posted by joeinmo on 09-06-2013 01:39 AM:

bullet and rattler

it seams to me the bullet and rattler dogs realy cover the country and most of the rattler dogs have a pretty lose mouth on strike jmo

Posted by max destruction on 09-06-2013 01:53 AM:

Skunk creek dogs are the best track dogs I've seen go,not just stick yur nose down and work there the kind that run with there heads up LOOKING for a coon not just run around till the find one,of all the blue dogs I've hunted with skunk creek dogs have the best head on there shoulders when it comes to finding a coon and getting him to a tree!

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Posted by everett on 09-06-2013 02:05 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by max destruction
Skunk creek dogs are the best track dogs I've seen go,not just stick yur nose down and work there the kind that run with there heads up LOOKING for a coon not just run around till the find one,of all the blue dogs I've hunted with skunk creek dogs have the best head on there shoulders when it comes to finding a coon and getting him to a tree!

what does the skunk creek dogs go back to......Gerald

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Posted by coonbone on 09-06-2013 02:09 AM:

So far it looks like you could cross a bullet dog with turk,or a skunk creek dog with turk,and have a dog that would start early,get gone quick,run track fast,and stay treed.Don't know if they would be very loud though.

I believe Rambo II threw very loud dogs.So i would ad that to the Bullet x Turk cross,or the Skunk Creek x Turk cross.

Posted by max destruction on 09-06-2013 02:11 AM:

Hammer and jet but the OLD hammer and jet,they've allways been bred to outside dogs and there not even a LINE of dogs so to say,there's not many Blueticks that have 20 generations in a row of grand night females in there ped!

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TEAM TREEDOGG!

Posted by Blue Iron on 09-06-2013 02:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by max destruction
Hammer and jet but the OLD hammer and jet,they've allways been bred to outside dogs and there not even a LINE of dogs so to say,there's not many Blueticks that have 20 generations in a row of grand night females in there ped!

That old Hammer and Jet has been working for a long time. I'm real fond of the ones I've got bred like that.

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Posted by max destruction on 09-06-2013 02:55 AM:

I'm a firm believer most Bluetick lines have something to offer in 1 way or another like a recipe but not enough people go get it cause they allready got the best or they go out one time than go back to the old stuff,the Bluetick breed needs to move ahead!

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TEAM TREEDOGG!

Posted by Shaw72 on 09-06-2013 03:06 AM:

Im a jet guy and love them. Only thing I believe would have put them over the top would be nose power. Not saying there's not crosses out there that don't have colder noses but the older jet breeding where pretty medium nose hounds. I'm making a cross now with my jet male and my levi female that should put alot more nose in them. Easy handling fast starting. jmo

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Posted by JScott187 on 09-06-2013 04:34 AM:

JMO...The blues got enough nose.....its drive and speed we are missing ....ther is a few hunters around here that just hide hunt got some stuff...if you want nose give them a call...they got some old blood..one step one bawl stuff....it has already been said here ...but everytime this convo comes up ther is a big pissing match insted of a group trying to work together to make things happen.......ill be happy if this post makes it ...would love to here from everyone

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Posted by southernthunder on 09-06-2013 05:02 AM:

I think this is a great thread and hope it stays clean!

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Posted by Vic Stoll on 09-06-2013 02:40 PM:

Nice thread John

It would also be very refreshing to see some Stud owners/Gyp owners list areas their dogs are short in or that they wished they could improve on. They all have holes and/or faults. Even list crosses they have tried that did not click as expected or that they would recommend not doing based on their experiences.

Keep em coming folks!

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Posted by ov_blues on 09-06-2013 04:54 PM:

Thanks for all the replies so far. I hope to see a lot more. Always learning.

I had a very interesting conversation with a breeder about 4 years ago. That conversation still bounces around my head a lot. One statement that he made was that continued family breedings for several generations would eventually produce more to the average. What I gathered from that, and looking back at experience from seeing several generations of family breeding, was that he was most likely correct. I also looked back thru time and remembered that some of my best dogs, and some of the worst crosses were from outcrosses. Knowing dominate traits thrown from a stud or line would help improve the success rate when making decisions if trying to improve.

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Posted by krocket on 09-06-2013 06:35 PM:

BULLET AS YOUR BASE TO ME GOES HUNTIN OK GOOD ONE BARK TREE DOGS BUT TO ME THERE BEST QUALLITY TO ME IS THERE INDAPENDENT

Posted by southernthunder on 09-06-2013 07:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
Thanks for all the replies so far. I hope to see a lot more. Always learning.

I had a very interesting conversation with a breeder about 4 years ago. That conversation still bounces around my head a lot. One statement that he made was that continued family breedings for several generations would eventually produce more to the average. What I gathered from that, and looking back at experience from seeing several generations of family breeding, was that he was most likely correct. I also looked back thru time and remembered that some of my best dogs, and some of the worst crosses were from outcrosses. Knowing dominate traits thrown from a stud or line would help improve the success rate when making decisions if trying to improve.

what are you seeing as strong traits in your hounds out of the old Sexton's Jimmy? good and bad

Posted by okietreedog on 09-06-2013 08:29 PM:

Brains

mine have too many brains makes them hard to train cause they are smartier than me lol

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Posted by Tom Jones on 09-06-2013 09:19 PM:

i believe

A problem is folks baseing there knowledge on a line off a few hounds that really aren't good representatives

I have read some of the replies and have alot of first hand experience with some listed above and have had way different experiences. Keep it to myself to respect the thread

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Posted by Wayne Valentino on 09-07-2013 01:16 AM:

can I wade in

here and get a toe wet.... Speed !!!! when they hit a bad one they gotta move it not grub it out, identifying a bad track, determining direction of travel then drift it out and come treed. If the first part of my statement happened, FASTER, then all would be well with the world... LOL... Seriously, beginning the drifting out on a bad track sooner would be something to strive for... I had em from the late 70's into the early 90's.. Bragg, Vaughn, old Hammer and Smokey River Lead blooded.. I was nothing more than a pleasure hunter and no one was interested in my hounds, didn't matter how good they were, NO TITLES, NO BREEDING... I lost those dogs to old age and raising 4 kids... Seen some as good or better but they are not common or reproduced enough with consistancy.. What I have now is extreamly balanced in all departments, I'll keep him.... God Bless !!!

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Posted by 408northville on 09-07-2013 03:02 AM:

Just like in any breed some of the best hounds are not well known. There are breeders who cull everything but the best of the litter so there is nothing to sell. In addition they do not competion coon hunt, but trust me there are blueticks that are as good or better as any other breed of hound.

Posted by 408northville on 09-07-2013 03:19 AM:

Re: Re: i believe

I responded to some of your statements.

PEOPLE KEEP MAKING CROSSES OR BREEDING TO THE SAME STUD OVER AND OVER.BUT DON'T IMPROVE THE BREED????

Mine improve with each litter, have not made in outcross in eleven years and never will.

#1 TO ME;THEY NEED BIGGER MOTORS FOR THE LATE ROUNDS OR 2ND AND 3RD NIGHT IN THE "BIG" HUNTS.

Yes most of the ones out there are like that. You would have to kill mine before they would quit. If they did quit I would do it for them

#2 MORE INDEPENDENCE ;WHERE I HUNT WE GOT COON.I CAN'T STAND SEEING ALL DOGS AT SAME TREE,WHEN I KNOW THERE ARE MORE COON.
In the woods mine do not know another hound exists.

NO IDEA WHERE TO LOOK,AS EVERYBODY SAYS THEY GOT IT. I'VE SEEN A CPL. NICE HOUNDS,BUT NOTHING CONSISTENT FOR THEIR BLOODLINE.

You can not tell mine apart in looks or ability.

Posted by joeinmo on 09-07-2013 10:21 AM:

the question

go back to the orig question I was hoping to learn some general qualities in stead all it has turned into is a we need crap like always.

Posted by Danny Glista on 09-07-2013 11:27 AM:

Pat

With all due respect! You need to keep your little 3 letter phrase of this board, we do have youth that visit here on this site alot at times. This is no place for it!! Now, back to the ?

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Posted by 408northville on 09-07-2013 01:27 PM:

To answer your questions you cannot add those things it in any breed. Contrary to what you may have heard you cannot breed one time to any hound and get a specific trait. Traits are controlled by a genetic code. The family has to be related and the genes have to be fixed in order to keep a specific trait. The inbreeding coefficient is the percentage of homogenous genes. The higher the inbreeding coefficient , the greater the chance the offspring will have in getting the homogenous genes from their parents. Hound must have a high inbreeding coefficient before you can attempt to fix traits. This is the main reason you have not see much improvement in any of the breeds and the reason people keep going back to the past. If you breed to another hound that is very fast to add speed to your hound, chances are, you will never get, if you do, you may never see it again. Because each time you breed your changing the genetic code. Before you can change or add a trait you have to make the genes homogenous within the family. If the genes are not homogenous you start all over with each breeding other than the genes that make them a hound. JTG

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