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your thoughts?

Drive is a big debate for a lot of folks, an several breeds if not all,

My opinion on the hole problem is buckets, I remember yrs ago I never put any buckets out to guide on, or get pups started on, just went hunting.I no most people put the buckets out within 100 yards from were they turn loose, there for if you train a dog on buckets, then hunt in hunts on buckets your dog is being hunted on buckets most the time. Then we breed these dogs that go as deep as a feeder an after a few generations want it be bred into them? I mean I may be dead wrong but I've hunted with several walkers an English in the last few yrs that would go a few hundred yards an if not struck would come back.so to me the drive is being bred out of them cause they don't have to hunt deep to get struck.
I'm just wondering if this makes since to anyone else.

Buckets

Don't use them often . But when I do I try to move them around some not too far just keep dog moving. You can get a dog used to hunting buckets and tell the ones that they were used on! So for me it's like showing them a coon when there young. When they can strike a coon on a bucket a few times and tree it there done. Off to the coon woods if you are cutting a young dog on wild coon I do the foot work ahead of time and scout for coon sign then take him in that area and cut him. Don't like them to have to hunt to hard when young to find coon but they need to hunt. Then if your in a hunt and they have buckets out he should be shining on them lots of people don't like the foot work needed to keep it wild no buckets.

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Mike McKinney

I use Sunfire lights

Buckets to be truely take the hunt out of your hound. Got drawed out one night with a big name in ga with black dogs. The nicest place a man could wanna hunt. Every drop was on a feeder, 55 gallon blue drum on a little tree which his dog slammed every time. Was the easiest cast I ever won because my dog was never hunted on buckets and the other two dogs were me to hounds. This was the kind of place that had the coons and would have without the buckets. Some use them and no problem with that if that's the kiind of hunting they want. I just want the hunt in my dog. I don't see the difference in turning a caged coon loose and dropping behind him.

Folks don't need drive , they aren't breeding for it and don't know if their dogs have it ... don't wanna know ... thicker coon , feeders , getting home earlier ,etc ....

Even more working moms that gotta have dad's help with the kids in the morning instead of him being out looking for hounds

With tracking collars and the nite hunt mentality of treeing as many as possible ... how many of yall really know if you got a treedog ? A dog that will stay treed all night or that can tree on a really tough track and stay treed on it ?

Right now , what is the average length of time most dogs have to tree before we get there ? It aint long , guys ... and it won't be long and there won't be any dogs being bred that will stay hooked for long .... nobody needs them to , so it WILL be lost.

All you can do is stick with what you need and what works for you and not worry if that means a dog that hunts deep , or stays treed a long time .. or is cold nosed .. or whatever ... just do your thing and not worry about what's popular in the magazines or message boards .. too much of that and folks are breeding and don't even know what they are trying to breed for ...

Dirt

Funny you bring up how long they tree I will not go to my dog when it trees for at least forty min. Then when I get there let them dogs tree. Just me but I have seen dogs not stay hooked long. Would like to see some of these tree monsters I've heard of and how they stick and stay. If he don't have it to stay he's not coon crazy. Don't comp hunt so time dont matter to me. Get hooked and pitch his tent he's staying lol.

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Mike McKinney

I use Sunfire lights

this time of the year every drop is a corn field for most,to me this is just as bad a buckets,i do thank in some dogs it will hurt there hunting,but in most cases they don,t have the hunt in them anyway. i have owned some english that would open on the first coon they came to,no matter if 20yds or a half mile.i like to start pups on bucket,but a good corn field is just as good.

Natural habbitat is one thing and it is only for a short time. Dogs are smart,,mans best friend,, and they learn right where the bucket is. A corn field they may tree here one night and another spot the next. Had a dog once that was hard to break from buckets. He even fell treed in the middle of the creek on a five gallon bucket that floated down and hung on a snag. Once broke was a tuff dog. We train our hounds like we train our children. What works for one family won't work for another. I believe you get a better hound that starts in the wild. But so many people wanna win a hunt the jump to guide a place that they have baited up. A real dog will steal his bucket with the coon or go past him and have the meat while other dog is getting 5 gallon happy.

I've trained every dog I've ever started on buckets and hunting on buckets has absolutely nothing to do with drive. I could take any of these dogs and drop them anywhere in the US and I will not see them again until I pull them off a tree or I call them out. I've never had a dog develop the habit of treeing on the bucket. I will not tolerate a dog that will not go hunting, while some trainers will. Not all buckets will have coon and I expect a dog to keep hunting until he finds one. It doesn't matter if you hunt buckets or game management, if you load a dog up when he comes back after 5 or 10 minutes or you let that dog stand still 150 to 200 yards in front of you, you are telling that dog that it is OK not to hunt. I let mine know from the start that coming back is not acceptable. Some dogs don't hunt as hard or as fast as others, but no dog should come back and stand around your feet. I don't doubt that many dogs that will not go hunting have earned titles because of buckets, but I believe that those dogs have it in them to go hunting they have just been allowed not to.

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Kenny's Allnite Black and Tans
Moncks Corner, SC
843-697-5889
ChNtCh Allnite Gypsy Girl

Train one without one and then tell me the difference.

I'd rather my young dog get the opportunity to strike and run several different tracks a night than spend his entire night searching for something to run. I feel, I get more accomplished by getting them exposed to these different tracks and I find they have their mind more on coons because they are expecting to find one. Have you ever hunted in Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Iowa etc.... A dog that goes in the woods in those states will more than likely be struck in less than 5 minutes, yet currently many of the best dogs in the country are from those areas. How do you explain those dogs that rarely ever have to get deep on their home turf winning all over the country?

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Kenny's Allnite Black and Tans
Moncks Corner, SC
843-697-5889
ChNtCh Allnite Gypsy Girl

I have never used a bucket in my life and I've been hunting probably longer than a lot of you guys have been alive. If a dog has drive and the will to hunt it will go.

__________________
"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."
- Paul William "Bear" Bryant



GR.Nt.Ch. Pr Black Magic Queen
Past home of Gr.Nt.Ch. Splitters Magic Otis 2014 Black and Tan Days King of Hunt. GRNITECH'PR' Roughton's Black Splitter X Gr.Nt.Ch. Black Magic Queen

The bucket produces a track than has hands that can reach in and get it. I'm not knocking how you start your dogs. I'm just sayinging it can be accomblished the other way. With young dogs we put them in the right enviroment. A buctet isn't needed if the hunt is in them

Kenny you got a good point. Like you said its in the training , if you don't let em get away with standing around it probably does not hurt them. But I doubt very seriously every one does that. I pleasure hunted with some fellas last yr an they were hunting buckets, not b&ts, an they turned 2 grnts loose an I turned my female there's were gone probably 15 min an were back at our feet, they wanted to no were my dog was they were ready to go some were else, I told em mine was hunting!! Haha

So it may not be the buckets , it may be the handlers letting them get away with not hunting deep. I'm also like some of youns if its in them to hunt deep they will.

So deep hunting is genetic , unless you hunt on buckets that sap the genes from them , lol.

The bucket don't change their hunting , it just gives guys an excuse not to plug a $300 pup that is wearing $500 worth of collars and rides in an $800 dog box ... getting a $300 light shined in it's eyes just a little ways from you .

We give ourselves too much credit as trainers ... crutches like buckets and such don't cripple the dogs .. they cripple us !

Buckets

I think we all can agree its a training tool. Just because I don't use them or the next guy dont make them wrong. I just have places that have coon on creeks and ridges they seem to always be there. Their in wild cherries right now that's where I go. If buckets work for you and your dog hunts the way you like lay with em. Don't think this post has to go sour lol. Like a young dog on bucket early in life it's a controlled environment that I can tell what he's got and acts then its off to a running coon. That's only thing I have against bucket most I've hit don't run far. Not a drive issue it's a short track issue. If he's worth hunting he will hunt bucket or not!

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Mike McKinney

I use Sunfire lights

Anyone ever worked out for awhile to build the muscle and endurance to carry a feeder bucket to the middle of a section to get pups hunting further actually ? The bucket is only as close to the road as you put it !

On 1 of my drops I have 3 buckets set up on a 1.5 mile long creek bottom. I normally hunt this block from tree to tree. If they tree a coon on the 1st bucket
the next bucket is normally over 800 yards away. I make them hunt until they get to the next bucket. When you force a dog to go hunting you need to make sure they can get on a coon, it's just a positive reward for hunting which can't be guaranteed in the wild. It doesnt take long and they realize if they go hunting they can strike a coon. They take this with them no matter where they are hunted. It has worked for me for over 25 years and I feel like Ive trained a few decent ones.

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Kenny's Allnite Black and Tans
Moncks Corner, SC
843-697-5889
ChNtCh Allnite Gypsy Girl

I would say for me it works best to start my pups with a good hound then seperate pup when ready move the pup to a bucket to get fresh coon tack to help build confedance of doing it alone and then quickly move to no buckets, i have a few buckets but most are way off in the woods and they have to find them and for all buckets they only get filled if i need to work a young pup the rest of the time they stay empty, I dont see much wrong with that dont know if it helps or not i do agee that they can do it with out a feeder if they got it. I dont think it helps with much of anything other than geting ya a coon a little quicker for a young dog, i dont believe it takes or puts any more or less of hunt in them.

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Chris Rigg
8202 Bacon Rd
Timberlake NC 27583

NITECH GRCH PR GUNNER'S RAGIN BARNEY--4 yrs GUNNER X DIAMOND

CH RIGG'S MAGIC DREAM HTX--7 yrs SINGLE REGISTERED ( COON DOG !!!! )

PR RIGG'S KY RIVER KATE--1yr GUNNER X QUEEN ,2nd place win



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Chris, Melisa,C.J. and Ty
919-210-4537

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