UKC Forums - Nite Hunt Rule Question?

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Posted by HOBO on 07-16-2013 12:50 AM:

Nite Hunt Rule Question?

Seems everytime you look on this board someone is complaining about this rule or that rule.... One would think after 50 years of having Nite Hunts the rules would be about as good as one could get them???

Kinda makes one wonder if instead of looking to change the rules maybe just MAYBE we need to look a little closer at our hounds instead of wanting to change the rules to how our dogs work. We should be breeding for dogs to work with our rules.

Sure you would need to update the rules as far as track collars and what, but as far as the hunting part goes why do we need to keep changing the rules?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 07-16-2013 01:05 AM:

Breeding for dogs that can win is a natural result of breeding to the dogs that are sucessful in the hunts. The reason the rules need to be revised from time to time is because sometimes breeding to the winners creates a hound that can win but is deficient as a coondog.
All the babblers that are currently winning is an example of how breeding based only on competition sucess can change the hounds that are being produced.

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Posted by HOBO on 07-16-2013 01:23 AM:

If you look at my breeding you can tell I do not base my breedings on what is winning in the hunts. Never have and never will.

Posted by jackbob42 on 07-16-2013 02:50 AM:

Re: Nite Hunt Rule Question?

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO

Kinda makes one wonder if instead of looking to change the rules maybe just MAYBE we need to look a little closer at our hounds instead of wanting to change the rules to how our dogs work. We should be breeding for dogs to work with our rules.

I was thinking the same thing earlier today.
Bad thing is , the guys making the rules refuse to see their own dogs faults as well.

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Posted by HOBO on 07-16-2013 03:46 AM:

Maybe its time we do away with all the rules and strike/tree points and let the handlers decide between themselves which dog did the best work.. Maybe then we could but a lil HONOR back in the hunts.

Posted by Dale Young on 07-16-2013 01:52 PM:

It's at least time to reverse the system & let UKC submit changes to the Associations when they think it's needed rather than every person with a bad experience sending one up.

Posted by H. L. Meyer on 07-16-2013 02:41 PM:

HOLD ON NOW

Let me see if i understand one post on here. We have rules that state ##$$% ^&&&% Now we have raised a bunch of dogs that can and will not meet those standards so we are going to change the rules to suit those sorry bunch of dogs.; NA don't think so easier I think to have some judges and M/H along the way that ENFORCE you know ENFORCE the rules we now have, It ain't hard to detect a dog that BABBLES a dog that is RUFF a slick treeing IDIOT A dog that wan't or don't hunt, BUT IT SURE IS HARD TO FIND A JUDGE THAT WILL TAKE CHARGE now that we have let's say weakened the judges responsibilities by having a non hunting judge who in reality has no other obligation other than writing down the score and keeping time (ok: I know but realy not much more). You see if you call it right and it comes to a vote AW you know the rest it happens all the time. You know 10 min left in hunt lets walk it out, aint a leaf o the tree and no bigger than my waist Aw just circle it, jumps something and leaves the county while the rest are treeing game, Man he is running a old bore coon, and the best one he aint RUFF want start notning but want take nothing either just JOCKEYING for position. You see I know the M/H want back up the judge cause he has a motive behind his rulling. So change the rules. Now Jump on me hard for my thoughts. H L Meyer

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Posted by Hoosier on 07-17-2013 12:58 PM:

Stir the pot Hobo

Hobo,

Glad to see you still kickin.....and stirring the pot. Preach on brother....preach on!

Can you imagine the arguments back at the clubhouse over whose dog performed better? You wouldn't need a MOH, you would need a Philadelphia lawyer! LMAO

As I recall MANY coonhunters have very selective memories and different versions of reality.

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Posted by HOBO on 07-17-2013 04:29 PM:

Hoosier are you hitting the timber hard these days?

Posted by RACII1174 on 07-17-2013 05:02 PM:

ENFORCE THE RULES OR DISREGARD THEM

i know this much THERE AIN'T A SORRIER SOB THAN A JUDGE OR A MOH THAT ENFORCES THE RULES AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME JUST TRY IT . OH ITS FINE TO TALK ABOUT IT BUT TAKE A CAST OUT AND TRY TO MINUS ONE OF THEM HECK THEY ALL GET MAD "OLD BLUE NEVER RAISED HIS HEAD " EVEN THOUGH HE'S BEEN FOLLOWING THE CAST A GOOD MINUTE. THEY MAKE ME SICK. OR THEY WANT TO PLUS A SPIDER'S EYE IF THERE DOG IS UNDER IT BUT SEE CAN'T A COON IN PLAIN SIGHT WHEN O BLUE AIN'T THERE. THEN AFTER ITS OVER AND THEY LOSE THE MOH GETS THE CALL OL' BIG BOB IS A BUTT HOLE.

Posted by RACII1174 on 07-17-2013 05:13 PM:

HAD A WELL KNOWN HOUNDSMAN TELL ME THE OTHER NIGHT "YOU NEED TO READ THE RULE BOOK" I SAID WELL HERES THE RULE BOOK LET'S LOOK AT IT TOGETHER HE TURN AROUND GOT IN HIS TRUCK LEFT PICKED UP HIS PHONE AND CALLED EVERYONE HE COULD AND TOLD THEM I WAS A CROOK. NOW THAT'S THE TRUTH . ALL BECAUSE I MINUSED HIS DOG

Posted by HOBO on 07-17-2013 06:08 PM:

The ones that get me are the ones that say show it to me in the rule book and as soon as you do they get mad and call you a crook.

Posted by RACII1174 on 07-17-2013 06:09 PM:

EXACTLY

Posted by Hoosier on 07-17-2013 06:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Hoosier are you hitting the timber hard these days?

Hobo,

I've only been out once and that was because English Days was in town and they were short of guides and I guided a youth cast. That was fun!

I don't own a dog Hobo............

How about you?

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Posted by HOBO on 07-17-2013 06:50 PM:

I havent been out in over a month... I still have dogs though. Lol maybe I need to send one up your way for a bit.

Posted by Hoosier on 07-17-2013 08:42 PM:

You can do that...but it better be able to tree a coon alone!

You KNOW we haev very few coons around my house...so it might be tough on it.

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Posted by HOBO on 07-17-2013 09:44 PM:

Yes I feel sorry for you and the lack of coon you have,

Posted by buzzardcreek on 07-18-2013 05:38 AM:

If in fact there is a glitch in the rules that causes breeders to breed an undesirable trait it needs to be fixed even if it has been done wrong for 50 years!

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Posted by HOBO on 07-18-2013 01:31 PM:

That's just it... Everyone keeps blaming the rules for what's wrong with each breed and the rules keep being changed... Seems to me that changing the rules for the last 50 years has hurt the breeds instead of helping.

Posted by brogy on 07-18-2013 06:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Maybe its time we do away with all the rules and strike/tree points and let the handlers decide between themselves which dog did the best work.. Maybe then we could but a lil HONOR back in the hunts.

That is a great idea, but I think hell would freeze over before you could find 4 coonhunters that could agree on anything.

I'd add that I think breeding dogs to win nite hunts has got us where we're at. I'm not sure that is a good thing. My dad and I talk all the time about the old grade plott dog we had when I was a kid. We never heard of terms like babbling, slick trees, shining, getting out of pocket, blowing thru the country, or needing to be hunted down until we started hunting registered dogs.

I like to hunt the same kind of dog that I typically hunt, but because of nitehunting I've become more tolerant of things that have become par for the course with hounds of today.

I think nite hunts would be better if folks just hunted dogs they enjoyed hunting instead of hunting something they felt gave them the best chance to win. Draw out 4 fellas hunting those types of hounds. Only award tree points to the dog that treed first on a coon, no strike points, no 2nd-3rd-4th tree, no circle or minus. Just count trees with raccoons. Before a winner can be declared the cast has to unanimously agree on the winner. If a decision can't be made, card is thrown out. Anyone that can't shake hands at the end of the hunt is barred from participating again.

Winner gets they're entry fee back and a win slip declaring them a winner. That's it.

That would be interesting.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 07-18-2013 09:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by brogy
That is a great idea, but I think hell would freeze over before you could find 4 coonhunters that could agree on anything.

I'd add that I think breeding dogs to win nite hunts has got us where we're at. I'm not sure that is a good thing. My dad and I talk all the time about the old grade plott dog we had when I was a kid. We never heard of terms like babbling, slick trees, shining, getting out of pocket, blowing thru the country, or needing to be hunted down until we started hunting registered dogs.

I like to hunt the same kind of dog that I typically hunt, but because of nitehunting I've become more tolerant of things that have become par for the course with hounds of today.

I think nite hunts would be better if folks just hunted dogs they enjoyed hunting instead of hunting something they felt gave them the best chance to win. Draw out 4 fellas hunting those types of hounds. Only award tree points to the dog that treed first on a coon, no strike points, no 2nd-3rd-4th tree, no circle or minus. Just count trees with raccoons. Before a winner can be declared the cast has to unanimously agree on the winner. If a decision can't be made, card is thrown out. Anyone that can't shake hands at the end of the hunt is barred from participating again.

Winner gets they're entry fee back and a win slip declaring them a winner. That's it.

That would be interesting.

great idea, and it would be alot of fun.
Pretty much like the days when we judged a dog by the hides he produced.

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Posted by Adam Wingler on 07-18-2013 09:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Maybe its time we do away with all the rules and strike/tree points and let the handlers decide between themselves which dog did the best work.. Maybe then we could but a lil HONOR back in the hunts.

HTX hunts...

Posted by buzzardcreek on 07-18-2013 09:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jubal
HTX hunts...

I like the HTX test hunts they are good for testing a dogs performance alone but I also like to line mine up with the best to compare my dogs performance to others

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Posted by Adam Wingler on 07-19-2013 04:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by buzzardcreek
I like the HTX test hunts they are good for testing a dogs performance alone but I also like to line mine up with the best to compare my dogs performance to others

Agreed, but the best dog, or what I think to be the best dog, doesn't always win. I was just referencing another option other than a scorecard hunt.

Posted by houndsnskeet on 07-19-2013 01:02 PM:

Re: HOLD ON NOW

You have this EXACTLY right... And I think the buddy buddy ways of some local clubs don't help. And 3 dog casts with a hunting judge...I ran into a case where my dog would of win if scored correctly. Judge said my dog moved trees, but when a dog in continuously shopping how could he move trees? Anyways he said ill have to minus that dog, he asked the other guy in the cast and he just nodded and then he turned not to me, the handler, but to Joseph and asked him what he thought... He wasn't even on the cast. He said what he thought didn't matter, the judge proceeded to ask me what I thought, well obviously being a 3 dog cast whatever I said didn't matter it was 3 against 1...
Questioning it would of only made me look like an idiot...

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
Let me see if i understand one post on here. We have rules that state ##$$% ^&&&% Now we have raised a bunch of dogs that can and will not meet those standards so we are going to change the rules to suit those sorry bunch of dogs.; NA don't think so easier I think to have some judges and M/H along the way that ENFORCE you know ENFORCE the rules we now have, It ain't hard to detect a dog that BABBLES a dog that is RUFF a slick treeing IDIOT A dog that wan't or don't hunt, BUT IT SURE IS HARD TO FIND A JUDGE THAT WILL TAKE CHARGE now that we have let's say weakened the judges responsibilities by having a non hunting judge who in reality has no other obligation other than writing down the score and keeping time (ok: I know but realy not much more). You see if you call it right and it comes to a vote AW you know the rest it happens all the time. You know 10 min left in hunt lets walk it out, aint a leaf o the tree and no bigger than my waist Aw just circle it, jumps something and leaves the county while the rest are treeing game, Man he is running a old bore coon, and the best one he aint RUFF want start notning but want take nothing either just JOCKEYING for position. You see I know the M/H want back up the judge cause he has a motive behind his rulling. So change the rules. Now Jump on me hard for my thoughts. H L Meyer

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