UKC Forums - Comp hunt ?

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Posted by Frank M on 07-15-2013 01:43 PM:

Comp hunt ?

Does off game have to be seen (nitech cast) in order for them to be scrtached?

Example
4 dog cast all 4 struck. 3 dogs trail out of hearing in just a few minutes. While keeping up with dogs 4th dog come from behind you and heads towards a small section of woods. The cast can hardly keep up with the 3 that are (my thoughts) running a deer. Can the 3 be scratched or do you have to see the deer?

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Posted by JiM on 07-15-2013 02:19 PM:

There is nothing in the rule book stating any requirement for visual confirmation. It is a judgement call subject to being overturned by a majority of the cast.
I think scratching for offgame heard but not seen is probably one of the rarest calls you will ever hear about in a nite hunt. Not saying it can't or won't happen but I have never seen or heard of a dog(s) scratched for running offgame that nobody saw.

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Posted by Frank M on 07-15-2013 02:56 PM:

Thanks Jim I was sure it didn't have to be seen.

My wife hunted my female in a hunt Saturday and she told the judge them dogs are running off game and his first remark was "Prove it"

When she asked me I told her you didn't have to prove it that it was a judgement call. With the judges dog being involved you know the outcome. I'm more upset my dog didn't make em pay by treeing a coon or 2 while they did ran it.

Posted by JiM on 07-15-2013 03:22 PM:

"Prove it" is a really stupid and amateur response in any of these situations because 1) nothing in the rules or the Advisor has ever required proof and 2) proving it is seldom even possible.

Posted by GA DAWG on 07-16-2013 12:28 AM:

Jim in may be a stupid remark but if its you against 3 more and your not judge. You'll have to prove it. Like having it on video or something lol.

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Posted by cory hall on 07-16-2013 12:40 AM:

frank I was told there was something in the latest rules that it did not have to be seen but if believed to be running off game could vote on it. don't quote me, but a good one for allen or todd to respond to.

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Posted by Frank M on 07-16-2013 01:18 AM:

Cory I asked this question more to prove to someone else than myself. I'm more mad psycho didn't tree a coon while they did it than the fact they didn't get scratched.

The only time you need "proff" is it has to be verified that a dog is on a tree if the stationary catches it. Other wise it's all just a judgement call like Jim said and chances are with a vote your going to be overturned more than not.

Posted by buck brush on 07-16-2013 01:20 AM:

i can remeber back some time ago Todd had said something about not having to see off game maybe he can bring it back up.

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Posted by cory hall on 07-16-2013 02:15 AM:

frank at least one thing you can take as good is she was paying attention and knew what was going on.

Posted by wakenda creek b on 07-16-2013 03:05 AM:

If the others want to run deer Ill take my chances letting them hunt. If you go and start scratching people for running off game without seeing it theres going to be alot of posts on monday morning about people getting cheated.lol

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Posted by nccoonhunter197 on 07-16-2013 10:21 AM:

The handler knows if his dog is running a deer or not. Getting the handler to be honest is another thing. You do not have to see the off game but with three dogs running it and only one asking for a vote, you can bet the outcome won't be in your favor. Having an honest judge is the key to any good cast or having three honest handlers. In reality that is probably not going to happen. Honor is the missing link to all sports.

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Posted by Todd K / UKC on 07-16-2013 02:46 PM:

Page 165 of the original Advisor. You do not always have to see a dog to score a dog. You do not have to see a dog leave a tree to know he's back on trail and minus his tree points. You do not have to see two dogs rolling in the leaves to know you just heard a dog fight and to scratch them for fighting. You do not have to see a dog leaving the country in a straight line across a plowed field and out of hearing to scratch them for off game. Judging requires good judgement. If you are not sure, you give the dog the benefit of the doubt. If you are sure of something based on your experience as a hunter, make the call.

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Posted by buck brush on 07-16-2013 03:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Todd K / UKC
Page 165 of the original Advisor. You do not always have to see a dog to score a dog. You do not have to see a dog leave a tree to know he's back on trail and minus his tree points. You do not have to see two dogs rolling in the leaves to know you just heard a dog fight and to scratch them for fighting. You do not have to see a dog leaving the country in a straight line across a plowed field and out of hearing to scratch them for off game. Judging requires good judgement. If you are not sure, you give the dog the benefit of the doubt. If you are sure of something based on your experience as a hunter, make the call.

Todd can they call for a cast vote and over rule a Judge for making a call on any one of these 3 things?????

Posted by Todd K / UKC on 07-16-2013 04:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by buck brush
Todd can they call for a cast vote and over rule a Judge for making a call on any one of these 3 things?????

Yes, those situations can be questioned just like any other. Then the procedures for asking questions apply.

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Posted by kelly601lee on 07-16-2013 04:23 PM:

Off Game

We had a similar situation at our club this past weekend, 2 dogs are left in the cast, the other 2 withdrew and the cast members had left the cast, the 2 dogs are both struck in, then are heard 'baying' something, dog A comes back in and is minused his strick pts., dog B moves from where they were both heard baying, then I think handler of dog B said she was in a hole, when they proceed they find she has a opposum, nitech cast of course she is scratched, the question was should dog A be scratched since they were on the same track, however dog A didn't get 'caught red handed' with the evidence. Of course handler of dog A would not admit that his dog also was on the off game, he said that you couldn't prove that she was running it. I wasn't along on the cast, just serving breakfast :-) Was curious to the correct ruling on this one....

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Posted by capt_agricultur on 07-16-2013 04:55 PM:

IFN

you dont know yer dog you shoulndt own one....(owner should be smarter than the dog)

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