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Score this one!

Here's another scenario for you guys to bat around for awhile. After while, I will post what ended up happening.

Nite Ch. cast with non hunting judge. This was several years ago.Dogs A,B, C & D are truck in in that order. Dogs B & C are declared treed. Dog D is declared treed separately. The cast arrives at the tree. At about this time, Dog A is called treed over the hill. Permission was asked for and granted for the handlers to go to both dog(s) A & D. The 1st tree was searched and was found to be slick. Dog D was in a hole. No coon or off game seen. At this time, the judge realized that Dog A wasn't being heard barking. Not sure if she was tied or not, time was started on the tree. OK..the 2 minutes caught her. Time was left running on track and it ran out also. At this time, the judge called out to handler A and was answered. Cast proceeds over the hill and when being told that time had expired on both tree and track, handler A asks why. The dog started getting sick and throwing up as soon as she was tied. (Evidence was found to support this)
Here were the options:
A) Leave dog minused for 225-
B) Score the tree as if the other had not occurred at this time nobody had even looked up)
What would you have done?

once permission is given to handle dogs the 2 or 8 is not in effect

I sure hope handler A put a ? on the card. Once a dog is handled It can puke or take a nap, as long as it is there its tree gets scored. I have always wished mine had enough sense to shut up.

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You have to score the tree accordingly, 2 or 8 can't get the handled dog!

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How the heck is a judge supposed to know where to go to a none barking dog. Ain't my problem to holler for you. The handler is the one that should be yelling if he wants his tree scored. This one waited 8 min. He must not have. Minus him.

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Michael Ghorley

scratch them all. judge is suposta be the first one into the tree them he says handle your dog. cast is suposta stay together unless time out is called. that aint cheating but its pretty close. how you gonna score a tree that you dont check or even start shine time on.

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I WISH YOU WOULD REREAD RULE NO.11 BEFORE YOU SAY SCRATCH THEM ALL

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quote:

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Originally posted by walker1978
scratch them all. judge is suposta be the first one into the tree them he says handle your dog. cast is suposta stay together unless time out is called. that aint cheating but its pretty close. how you gonna score a tree that you dont check or even start shine time on.

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-- Theodore Roosevelt



Brian Teague 252-649-3050

How is it that dog was minused for the 8. Surely the other dogs treeing broke the eight when applied. Did the 2 dogs from tree #1 recast or at least was given the option?
Hmmmm

__________________
"Believe Nothing You Hear and Only Half of What You See."

quote:

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Originally posted by WEBBER
How is it that dog was minused for the 8. Surely the other dogs treeing broke the eight when applied. Did the 2 dogs from tree #1 recast or at least was given the option?
Hmmmm

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This post is a good reason why I don't think non hunting judges are the solution to many problems.

Several mistakes here.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
This post is a good reason why I don't think non hunting judges are the solution to many problems.

Several mistakes here.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jack Bingham
Once all dogs were declared treed they are all leash locked there would be no option to recast.

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"Believe Nothing You Hear and Only Half of What You See."

The 8 should of never been put on dog a

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I see that I have the timeline screwed a bit. I see now that the judge didn't start the 2 and 8 until after scoring Dog D in a hole. I guess.......So surely the judge at that time would assume that Dog A has been handled... I say you score the tree and not minus the dog for the 2 & 8

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"Believe Nothing You Hear and Only Half of What You See."

OK..Here is what happened. Right or wrong.

The time wasn't started on Dog A until we left the hole. By the way, I was the judge. I ASSUMED she was on a lead but was not sure. Therefore, the time was started. When the time had lapsed, we called out to the handler and walked to the tree. As soon as we got there, I was told what had happened and as I said, there was evidence of the dog being sick. I mention this and checked also in case the dog was pulled off a slick tree or off game. I sat down with the whole cast and we discussed what should be done. The handler mentioned that if he was that far behind; there was no use in continuing the hunt.
My decision was this: score the tree however it needed, plus, minus or circle. It was a huge pine by the way. No coon seen. I asked if anyone felt that it should be handled differently. I felt that I may have been hasty in putting the time on the dog and made a mistake. In fact, for awhile I had a question mark on the card myself just in case I had blown the call by scoring the tree.
I thought this may have been a situation that you don't run across every night and we could learn something by it. I was hoping to get an official ruling on it but they evidently did not see it or decided to stay out of the discussion.

quote:

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Originally posted by nccoonhunter197
The judge can give permission to handlers to go handle their dogs if split. In this case of a non-hunting judge then it makes it even easier because you don't need a majority of the cast to score the tree. The judge has a responsibility to score each tree after dogs are handled. He can not run the two or eight on a dog that has already been handled so he must make every effort to do his job and score the tree. After a dog is handled it is not required to bark or even make another sound. As stated earlier the dog can take a nap if it wants to. If dog A was minused by running the two or eight and the handler did not question the call then he let his dog down by not doing his job.

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-- Theodore Roosevelt



Brian Teague 252-649-3050

OK. Most of you seem to agree that the deal ended up right.

NOW..put yourself in that position at that time. Can you in all honesty tell me that you wouldn't have run the time on the dog and maybe minused her?

Again, its easier to sit back and be an armchair quarterback knowing more about the situation. I just honestly think I would have done it exactly the same again.

Let me add this too. I would still score the tree after finding them, just as was done before. The purpose of the thread was to ask how you would have handled the situation.

On a side note, we went on to tree 3 coons that were seen and dog A won the cast.

But once a dog is handled you can not run any time on the dog because it has been handled.

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Brian Teague 252-649-3050

I think you are still missing the point. You don't know if the do has been handled or not...remember??

Put yourself in that situation.

shouldnt the dog that was in the hole be scratched

No, the armadillo wasn't seen. I know that was what it had but you can't prove it.

Ok, you don't know if the dog is handled. You are the judge and have to make every effort to get the cast back together before starting the clock. If you do start the clock without the cast together then you are not doing your job as judge. Like you said, you don't know if the dog is handled or not so you can't assume that it is not standing there with its handler waiting on you to arrive and score the tree. You made a mistake and wasted a little hunt time.

Step one, after scoring hole you make every effort to locate the absent handler.
Step two, after making contact with the absent handler you score tree.

See how easy that was versus running the two then the eight then minus the dog then making contact with handler then scoring tree then changing the mistake on the score card.

You asked a question and have been given the answer several times but you always come back to "don't know if the dog is handled or not". You made a mistake, we all do. So the answer to your scenario is you can't start the clock until you know for sure if the dog has been handled or not.

__________________
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." -
-- Theodore Roosevelt



Brian Teague 252-649-3050

quote:

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Originally posted by nccoonhunter197
Ok, you don't know if the dog is handled. You are the judge and have to make every effort to get the cast back together before starting the clock. If you do start the clock without the cast together then you are not doing your job as judge. Like you said, you don't know if the dog is handled or not so you can't assume that it is not standing there with its handler waiting on you to arrive and score the tree. You made a mistake and wasted a little hunt time.

Step one, after scoring hole you make every effort to locate the absent handler.
Step two, after making contact with the absent handler you score tree.

See how easy that was versus running the two then the eight then minus the dog then making contact with handler then scoring tree then changing the mistake on the score card.

You asked a question and have been given the answer several times but you always come back to "don't know if the dog is handled or not". You made a mistake, we all do. So the answer to your scenario is you can't start the clock until you know for sure if the dog has been handled or not.

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