UKC Forums - You score this one?!!

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-- You score this one?!! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928324411)

Posted by OLD TIMER on 06-20-2013 06:52 PM:

You score this one?!!

The Professor and myself made a drop and as we stood on a hill his hound open to our right and at the same time mine open to our left. They were really getting after it and bang they hit the same tree at the same time. We got there and started to shine and I seen a slick tail, a deer that was hung in a fork he must have timed his jump wrong and a coon. Professor said he only seen the deer and wanted to minus the tree!!! We went and found both hounds tracks in the mud and they both had a coon track. So we go back to the tree and shine some more and he than sees the coon. So the question is, does he take circle because he couldn't find both coon only mine. Do we get minus because off game was seen? I said circle because we BOTH could not agree so there was not a majority.

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Posted by Randy Howard on 06-20-2013 06:57 PM:

Lol! deer and possum and a coon, sounds like wilderness stew to me

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Posted by OLD TIMER on 06-20-2013 07:36 PM:

Well the answer is:

Circle because they were both open hounds BUT had they been in a Nite or Grand Nite cast they would have both been scratched. No majority or coon can save a Nite Ch or Gr Nite Ch if under a tree with "OFF GAME" seen in it. 10 coon and a house cat in the same tree will send you home if you have a hunt title on old Blue.

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Posted by cooter_hunter on 06-20-2013 09:27 PM:

It dont matter whats in a tree if there's a coon the tree is plus

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Posted by OLD TIMER on 06-20-2013 09:50 PM:

Sorry

wrong answer Any time off game is seen for a Nite Ch or Gr Nite they are scratched. It's under "dogs will be scratched" in the rule book.

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Posted by M. B. Jones on 06-20-2013 10:35 PM:

wrong if coon is in tree with off game dogs are not minused or scratched.

If I remember this was talked about in the advisor column once.

Posted by Nate Ratcliff on 06-21-2013 02:41 AM:

Plus points both dogs been there a few times nite ch grnt reg and at the world finals non hunting judge unless something has changed in the past yr coon seen is plus points

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Posted by Don Barnett Sr on 06-21-2013 03:00 AM:

Score

Plus both dogs, be thankful, walk HARD AND FAST for a minute,and recast um. LOL.

Posted by OLD TIMER on 06-21-2013 03:20 AM:

Right out of the RULE BOOK -- --

6. DOGS WILL BE SCRATCHED:

*(k) In Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion
casts, for running, treeing or molesting off game during
hunting time including any time out periods prior
to the expiration of hunt time.

Call it bad luck or what ever you want, but it's pretty much cut and dry.

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Posted by tylerman on 06-21-2013 03:43 AM:

Its like reading the bible or laws..purpose or intent.If the coon is seen...then the possum dont matter...or whatever else..like a circle tree...benefit of doubt...you can make any ruling you want but it will get overturned if it aint the right one and goes back to to master of hounds as a question.

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 06-21-2013 04:49 AM:

It's plussed if coon is seen. no matter what else is in the tree.

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Posted by BIG$BLUES on 06-21-2013 06:04 AM:

Lol there can be 5 slick tails in the tree if there is a coon also it is plussed

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Posted by BIG$BLUES on 06-21-2013 03:10 PM:

You should as well hahaha

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Posted by BIG$BLUES on 06-21-2013 03:11 PM:

This blue dog guy is right in his statement

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-21-2013 03:52 PM:

What if 4 dogs tree in a Gr Nt cast and are handled. All 4 handlers find a possum. Now 2 of the handlers keep shining and see a coon but the other 2 handlers don't see the coon. Then what do you do? You have 2 handlers voting to plus the tree and 2 voting to scratch all 4 dogs. Do you just scratch the 2 dogs of the handlers that did not see the coon?

Posted by tylerman on 06-21-2013 04:38 PM:

or what if 2 guys leave the rest of the cast at a run and score the tree before the other members get there claiming a dog at the tree was not at the tree to be able to win the cast? Answer before was...you dont know for sure unless you were on the cast...does this fit the same criteria?

Posted by Sawblade on 06-21-2013 04:43 PM:

Richard

Thinking that one over. I have found myself thinking that one over. I know how it gets scored but it is tricky.
One Rule reads..All scores MUST be plus ,minus, circle or delete. MOH tells us that before the hunts.
Another rule reads...When no majority is reached the dogs get the BENEFIT and the trees are circled.
Another rule reads.... Trees will be minused for off game and scratched if NiteCh or GrNiteCh. Does that mean minused first then moved up to scratch in case's of NiteCh's.and GrNite's.

If I have this happen to me and I am one of the 2 handlers that see a coon and I am positive I see this coon in a tree with a possum in it. I for sure do not want scratched.

HMMMM makes ya think.

I bet we will see this one in the Bloodlines . We all can learn ,I'm glad I learned how to score it correctly. Even some MOH's get this one wrong from time to time.

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Posted by RED REBELS on 06-21-2013 05:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by tylerman
or what if 2 guys leave the rest of the cast at a run and score the tree before the other members get there claiming a dog at the tree was not at the tree to be able to win the cast? Answer before was...you dont know for sure unless you were on the cast...does this fit the same criteria?

the judge is to be the first to reach the tree, or the "run aheads" can be scratched AND they are to move at a reasonable pace that all cast member are able to move through the woods. in my opinion SCRATCH THEM

now as far as coon and off game in a tree, I may be wrong, but I was always under the assumption that if off game was seen the dog (if open dog) was to be minused, or if a titled dog, it was to be scratched.

Lizz

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-21-2013 05:10 PM:

Re: Richard

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
Another rule reads...When no majority is reached the dogs get the BENEFIT and the trees are circled.

Does that mean minused first then moved up to scratch in case's of NiteCh's.and GrNite's.

HMMMM makes ya think.

There is the key. As usual you have a great way of explaining things. If 2 vote to plus or minus and 2 vote to circle, then the tree gets circled. So if you can't minus the tree then you can't scratch the dogs. Now that is the way that I see it. And Tylerman, yes it does.

Posted by OLD TIMER on 06-21-2013 05:12 PM:

Thanks Kelly

There is going to be a bunch crying in their milk when they learn of the answer

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Posted by tylerman on 06-21-2013 05:23 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RED REBELS
[B]the judge is to be the first to reach the tree, or the "run aheads" can be scratched AND they are to move at a reasonable pace that all cast member are able to move through the woods. in my opinion SCRATCH THEM

sounds simple enough....just depends on the loss of integrity and the need to win sometimes

Posted by runnin rebels on 06-21-2013 08:30 PM:

advisor

Caught Coon with Possum Overhead
Scenario: In a Registered cast, my dog is the only one treed. We found her treed on an old beech tree with a hole in the bottom of it. When we arrived, she had her head inside the hole and her shoulders up against the hole. That�s as far as she could get inside the hole. There�s a possum perched on one of the lower limbs in the tree, but there�s also a freshly killed kitten coon lying inside the hole where her head was. How do you score this?

RP/IN

A: Whenever you have both a coon and off game in the same tree, we say to give the dogs the benefit of the doubt and plus their points. No consideration is taken for the off game. The same should go for this scenario, other than you would consider the coon caught opposed to treed. Therefore, delete the tree points and award strike points only. Forget the possum even existed. My question to you is; did �Lucky� win her cast that night?

so all who say minus/scratch you are WRONG

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Posted by Sawblade on 06-21-2013 09:07 PM:

dead

You can not score on a dead coon. so tree is minus. Even when you know what happened sometimes the rules have to be followed in order to give integrity to the sport. Sorry

Is there a difference between a dead coon in a tree and a coon caught on the ground. I thought in a tree is minus on the ground is plus strike.

Posted by Sawblade on 06-21-2013 09:26 PM:

Richard

Which comes first the chicken or the egg.

lets make everyone think .
If you see a possum in a tree do you minus or scratch the dogs first then look for a coon or do you look for a coon and score later ?
Is scratching a dog for treeing off game a part of scoring the tree ?

Posted by Dale Young on 06-21-2013 09:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What if 4 dogs tree in a Gr Nt cast and are handled. All 4 handlers find a possum. Now 2 of the handlers keep shining and see a coon but the other 2 handlers don't see the coon. Then what do you do? You have 2 handlers voting to plus the tree and 2 voting to scratch all 4 dogs. Do you just scratch the 2 dogs of the handlers that did not see the coon?

Re: Richard

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Sawblade
Another rule reads...When no majority is reached the dogs get the BENEFIT and the trees are circled.

Does that mean minused first then moved up to scratch in case's of NiteCh's.and GrNite's.

HMMMM makes ya think.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is the key. As usual you have a great way of explaining things. If 2 vote to plus or minus and 2 vote to circle, then the tree gets circled. So if you can't minus the tree then you can't scratch the dogs. Now that is the way that I see it. And Tylerman, yes it does.

Sounds like a majority saw off game .

Majority didn't see a coon and circle was best that could happen

Does circle coon override a majority for off game or do you have to have a plus coon to override the off game majority ?

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