UKC Forums - Bench show judging

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Posted by houndsnskeet on 06-09-2013 10:30 PM:

Bench show judging

Question for those experienced in judging bench shows... If you have dog A who is far superior to dog B but dog A is wriggly, won't stand quite still, but still enough to examine it, and Dog B is a brick, handler moved all its (very flat feet) and then stepped away... Now what dog would you pick? These were not my dogs and this situation was a local bench show. I'm just curious to know. I know the wriggling dog was way nicer that the still dog but the judge told the guy that he would of picked him if his dog was stiller. Also for you who would pick the dog that was calmer and more still, where in the standard does it say that have to be still on bench as a judging requisite? Just curious, I would like to see if I'm still stuck in "confirmation" type showing

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Posted by Cynthia on 06-10-2013 01:02 AM:

the whole point of bench shows is to choose a dog that best represents the breed standards as presented to the judge on the day in question.

If the dog allows the judge to inspect it, but does not stand like a statue, and meets all points of the standards, then that is the dog that should be chosen. Remember, NONE of the breed standards allow for ANY of the breeds to have what you have referred to as "flat feet". Each refer to the feet as either cat footed, tight feet, strong well padded, but NONE say flat...first strike. Again, even though this is a bench show, we ARE NOT judging statues. These are live animals and that should be taken into account. Nothing was said about the age of the dogs in question and that could have something to do with the wigglies, could be nerves, both dog and/or handler.

all this being said, sitting on the sidelines, we cannot see what the judge saw. there may be something worse than flat feet wrong with Dog A that overrode Dog B and to the observer would make you go "hmmm".

also, without pictures of both dogs to at least give some sort of visual, again its a shot in the dark.

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Posted by houndsnskeet on 06-10-2013 01:24 AM:

Oh I'm sorry the dog that won had flat feet, the one that was the stillest. I wish I could post pictures but I worry I'd offend ppl, and I want no ones feelings hurt.

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Posted by Bill(Chew) on 06-10-2013 01:42 AM:

I agree with Cynthia 100%.

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Posted by Cynthia on 06-10-2013 01:54 AM:

I assumed that from the question!!

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 06-10-2013 02:29 AM:

Re: Bench show judging

quote:
Originally posted by houndsnskeet
Question for those experienced in judging bench shows... If you have dog A who is far superior to dog B but dog A is wriggly, won't stand quite still, but still enough to examine it, and Dog B is a brick, handler moved all its (very flat feet) and then stepped away... Now what dog would you pick? These were not my dogs and this situation was a local bench show. I'm just curious to know. I know the wriggling dog was way nicer that the still dog but the judge told the guy that he would of picked him if his dog was stiller. Also for you who would pick the dog that was calmer and more still, where in the standard does it say that have to be still on bench as a judging requisite? Just curious, I would like to see if I'm still stuck in "confirmation" type showing

i dont understand the ??? if every thing in the breed standard
says straight with the exception of couple angles and you cant
keep 1 on the bench how do you know what it is?outside of chest and head.

Posted by houndsnskeet on 06-10-2013 02:54 AM:

It was on the bench, but wouldn't keep still long enough for the judge to star at them for a good 5 minutes... It was a young dog

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Posted by H. L. Meyer on 06-10-2013 02:26 PM:

BY all means

Put them on the ground have them GATE then U can tye which ever one U wont to. That is the going thing now " I'M going with this dog it gates better" ain't you been to any shows lately?

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Posted by rowdyhound on 06-10-2013 02:47 PM:

I dislike when judges make dogs stand forever!! I honestly believe a judge knows which dog they like when they see them on the ground. I was at a show once and heard the judges say "I'm going with this dog because once they are a champion they should stand still"!!! I work mine A LOT at home on both gaiting and standing, but with all things animal they may have their own idea of what to do!!

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Posted by Dale Young on 06-10-2013 02:49 PM:

What Cynthia said .
I work my dogs to be still so they can be judged & look good . I don't train for gaiting at all at home but try to keep up when at the shows . Actually how well trained a dog is has little to do with the standards they're to be judged by but it does make a large difference in the impression they present . No training at all won't help you win , especially when you run into that judge who thinks it does . Try to prepare for whichever you run into .
Dogs just have to meet the breed standards , some do that better than others .

Posted by LMBEDDINGFIELD on 06-10-2013 05:57 PM:

Easier for a judge to pick the still dog I guess....

I have made a choice at a very large show of the nicest dog in the class that was not handeled very well by the handeler...

However, I was able to look and inspect the dog to see what I needed to....

Was an easy choice for me but I had a few people that did not like it... I would do it again under the same circumstances...

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Posted by Showman on 06-10-2013 06:05 PM:

TELL THEM GIRL

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Posted by Ky Show Girl on 06-11-2013 01:04 AM:

Obama care.

Posted by houndsnskeet on 06-11-2013 02:34 AM:

Just to clarify I was never criticizing anyone's hounds or anyone's judging, just stating an opinion and question. I was asking a question as I haven't been doing bench shows very long and was curious as to what was thought about the situation by seasoned bench showers. I was actually hunting that night and missed the bench deadline but I enjoy watching the hounds bench, these guys dogs were also entered in the hunt and I can imagine worked up over being hunted.

Please do not take my topic out of context, I am not a person to criticize other folks hounds or any judges opinion

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Posted by blocksporthound on 06-11-2013 01:27 PM:

As someone who is new to coon dogs but a veteran performance dog breeder, logic has always told me that form follows function. That said I agree with Cynthia and Lisa....a slightly wiggly dog, but one a judge can lay their hands on, and see the dogs outline and angles clearly should be given the win if it is indeed the best example of the breed on that particular day. I would hate to think that bench showing is a statue contest. It would defeat everything I think about this great sport. Another thing I noticed is what I call over handling. I observed before I actually did show....the hands flying around, constantly, legs spread as wide as the bench, the constantly tugging and pulling. I stack my dog, get him up on his toes and leave him be. Do judges want to see the "handling"? On gaiting I think it is most important and all hunters should too. I raise race dogs...if they can't run...if a dog can't gait....can it run the woods and tree?? IMHO they BETTER be the whole package or they don't deserve to win.

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Posted by Ky Show Girl on 06-11-2013 04:58 PM:

if he dont have enough stay power there not going to + it anyway

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