UKC Forums - What all need to know about bench showing......

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Posted by Ricky L Hovis on 05-08-2013 07:40 PM:

What all need to know about bench showing......

I am in the process of becoming a Master of Hounds. I know all that needs to be know about the Coonhunting aspect of the matter. What I need to know is,

What do I need to know, (in all) about bench showing to be a master of hounds?

I can pick which dogs looks the best, not just ones I like but body, form,etc....

Please inform me.

Thanks Hovis
God Bless

Posted by Paul Frederick on 05-08-2013 07:44 PM:

The quick answer is absolutely nothing. Master of Hounds and Bench Show Judge are two totally different licenses and are two separate tests. You do not have to know anything about one to have the other license.

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Posted by Clif Owen on 05-08-2013 08:56 PM:

They are 2 seperate ballgames. The MOH deals with rule interpretations and settling questions on situations that arise in the woods. The show judge is trying to select the hound that best fits the breed standards.

Posted by Ricky L Hovis on 05-09-2013 02:16 AM:

I will be master of hounds and Bench show man. 2 Test i know now.

What will i have to know to be a Bench Show Head man in charg?????.
Master of hounds is a 20 question test i know.

How much and what do I need to know to Be a Show Judge???

Sorry for not making a clear statement the first time, Thanks for yalls advice.

Posted by Cleo on 05-09-2013 02:42 AM:

Are you going to be judging shows?

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Posted by H. L. Meyer on 05-09-2013 02:58 AM:

Yesser

Sounds like he would fit right in to me what U think?

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Posted by Showman on 05-09-2013 03:04 AM:

judge

Have u ever see a bench show before?

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Posted by Doug Bowers on 05-09-2013 03:15 AM:

He can't be no worst than some ive seen.
thats what the bench show needs. new judges and no buddy buddy .
LET THE DOG DO THE WINNING.
just like comp huntting. let the dog do the winning.

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Posted by R.lee prater on 05-09-2013 03:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Bowers
He can't be no worst than some ive seen.
thats what the bench show needs. new judges and no buddy buddy .
LET THE DOG DO THE WINNING.
just like comp huntting. let the dog do the winning.

Posted by Ricky L Hovis on 05-09-2013 04:14 AM:

Yes i have seen bench shows and I can pick the dog that should win as a spectator i can pick. I just want to know what all one has to look at./

Will bench show judges pitch in, thanks

Posted by Cynthia on 05-09-2013 04:30 AM:

1. you MUST evaluate the dog's movement on the ground
2. you MUST evaluate the dog in a stacked position on a bench
3. you MUST check all of the other things that are listed in each of the breed standards from head to tail.

you are looking for the IDEAL specimen of THAT breed on THAT day that is presented to you. remember, you will NEVER see the perfect dog.

Plotts have shorter ears that other breeds - they are supposed to. they are not supposed to reach to the end of the nose, dont try to make them

if there are 2 or 3 dogs that are close, dont be afraid to regait them to break the tie. you are the judge, its your ring and your decision. you call the shots.

give EVERY dog an equal and fair look, they all paid the same entry fee and they all deserve the same treatment, regardless of outcome.

you will become friends with or already have friends that show. be cautious in this area. if these ppl "follow" you around and show to you alot and continue to win, then you will become known for playing favorites and lose integrity. that will be hard to get back.

after all is over, you want to be able to walk away and not have any regrets about your decisions. sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of 2 evils. I believe the choice is there to withhold a win. Ive never seen anyone do it tho.

pick persons to apprentice under that has been judging a long time that is a GOOD judge and makes GOOD choices of dogs not handlers. you want them to be able to explain their choices to you based on the dog not on the person handling.

enjoy yourself. good luck. unless its changed, there is a question or two that the answer is NOT in the book!!!

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Posted by Doug Bowers on 05-09-2013 12:32 PM:

If you go by what Cynthia tells you, you will do just fine.
GOOD LUCK.

Posted by on 05-09-2013 02:32 PM:

Education

What the bench show program needs is more "education". The world is always changing and we "learn" more about it. So why can't we have "educational" articles that would help educate judges and others that would like to become a judge.

It needs to be taken seriously! Its more then just a pretty dog with tight feet that stands as a perfect statue.

Posted by Clif Owen on 05-09-2013 03:00 PM:

One thing that people that have never judged do not realize is that you do not see everything the judge sees. Unless you are familiar with the dog, you don't see the bite for instance.
Another "problem" is that some of them have no idea what is important and what isn't.
I heard a guy comment once that his dog should have won because.....and I quote "He will stand up there and hold his tail up on his own"

As stated before..find good judges to apprentice under and ask questions if you are at all unsure about anything. Nearly all will be more than happy to explain it. And know going into it that you are not going to make everyone happy. There will always be someone that won't agree with a decision. Hence, the rumors that a judge favors his (or her) buddies, breed, etc.

On a side note...I assume the apprentice forms are still mailed in. If so, do yourself a favor and bring an addressed, stamped envelope for the judge to use. This is a gesture that is greatly appreciated. and in a few cases will actually speed up the process. I have dropped a few in the mailbox on my way home instead of having to wait until the folowing Monday .

Posted by Clif Owen on 05-09-2013 03:06 PM:

I would like top see more ecucation offered too. Not only in the field of showing, and judging shows but also how to judge a cast...some of the worst nightmares you can imagine used to be over timekeeping and such. I even remember a cast coming in that had a circle tree or 2 and maybe even a minus or 2..everything else had just a number there..no plusses...and they had scored 3 or 4 coons..just did not put a plus sign there. You had to assume they were plussed.

Another pet peeve is a guy that fills out his entry and only puts part of the address.

Posted by Cynthia on 05-09-2013 03:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Clif Owen
...

Another pet peeve is a guy that fills out his entry and only puts part of the address.

some of the address issues also goes back to the forms that are used. they are not specific enough to say: name, address, city, state, zip. lots of folks think if they put their address and/or city we automatically know the state and/or zip. or not area code with a phone number.

education is key, but the teacher has to be considered as well. if the teacher is not teaching the correct info, then the student is not learning the correct material.

just as event planners should be choosing QUALITY judges, then so should the teacher be of the highest quality as well. there are quality judges out there, everyone may not agree with all their choices all the time, but if you search for them you will find them. no need to keep recycling the same ones over and over hoping for better outcome (def of chaos).

Posted by Ricky L Hovis on 05-09-2013 03:34 PM:

Cynthia,

Thanks for all you typed/spoke to me. It was VERY informational and I gained from it. I will keep my name straight and watch those I know.

Thanks and God Bless

Posted by steve randolph on 05-09-2013 03:43 PM:

judgeing

wow..what a judge needs to be able to do is know all 7 breed standards inside out most judges today dont know.. and to be able to know the correct gait of a dog some today see things that only they want to see .. theres some judges that make up excuses as your dog does this or that and you know that your dog doesent do that.. cause its been shown under severar other judges that are comfermation and structrual judges and they never seen some of the off the wall stuff that one judge tells you.. be far and honest with ever dog you judge dont even look at whoes handleing the dog.. look at all espects of the dog comfermation ,, gait ,, general apperance ,, and judge that dog by his or her breed standards.. hope this helps to answer your question.. steve randolph

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Posted by LMBEDDINGFIELD on 05-09-2013 03:50 PM:

Breed Standards Breed Standards Breed Standards....

Cynthia worded it very well... as with anything practice makes better...

Always have control of your show ... you evealuate the dogs as you want to make sure to always check bites, ears, males and females.

I learn something new every time I judge and love every minute of it....

Never be afraid to go with the dog you feel is the best dog on any given day!!!!!

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Posted by Cleo on 05-09-2013 04:12 PM:

These ladies have judges the BIG ones successfully.

Its not as easy as it looks. Best of luck to you.

Posted by blocksporthound on 05-09-2013 06:07 PM:

I agree with the ladies! Breed standard!! How many people know the Plott is the smallest of the coonhounds? How many judges look at tail carriage? Tail should not scorpion over the back. How many actually look at gait and look for reach and drive?

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Posted by Cynthia on 05-09-2013 08:07 PM:

sorry Kristen, Plotts are not the smallest.

B&T: M - 23-27, F - 21-26
TW: M - 22-27, F - 20-25
all others: M - 22-27, F - 21-25

http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/WebP.../BreedStandards

Posted by blocksporthound on 05-09-2013 09:11 PM:

Cynthia maybe it is AKC standards...I read. But I believe ya!

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Posted by blocksporthound on 05-09-2013 09:15 PM:

What I read as standard

Size, Proportion, Substance
Size--Height--Males--20 to 25 inches at the withers. Females 20 to 23 inches at the withers. Proportion--General conformation and height in proportion. Faults: Extremely leggy or close to the ground. Weight--(in hunting condition) Males-- 50 to 60 pounds. Females 40 to 55 pounds. Substance--Moderately boned. Strong, yet quick and agile. Faults: Overdone. Carrying too much weight and or to much bone to display speed and dexterity.

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Posted by blocksporthound on 05-09-2013 09:16 PM:

And sorry yes...it was the AKC standard and listing them as the smallest coonhound. Totally different size standard.

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