UKC Forums - Rule Question

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Posted by Bmh459 on 05-07-2013 02:00 AM:

Rule Question

i judged my first event the other night and i think i know the rules well but i have 2 questions.
1- does the judge have to tell the cast members what they dog scored on tree? the way i read the rules it says "by request"

2- we cut the dogs. they treed, we we got to the tree one cast member dog was on the tree, mine and the other dog was in the creek maybe 20 yds away. while i was climbing down the bank to leash my dog before it pulled the coon out. i was almost to her when she pulled the coon out. at that time i lost my tree points but keep strike points. where the problem arose is when the handler of the dog treeing searched tree, and did not see a coon. his claim was that his doged showed the end of the trail, therefor he should not be minused. i however thought that it should be. we put it to a cast vote and the other handler was freinds woth him so he sided with him but i believe that i had the rule correct because ,my dog had the coon in the hole.

am i wrong? just trying to learn the rules and make sure i am fair to everyone

Posted by WVHUNTER24.7 on 05-07-2013 02:38 AM:

Sounds like the dog that was treed just thought it had "The end of the Trail" Its called a slick tree and should have been minused.

Also in reference to rule 3(b) your dog that pulled coon out should have gotten plus strike and tree points.

3(b)
When dog is declared struck and treed and coon is seen other than in tree, dog declared treed to receive strike and tree points.
Dogs not declared treed strike points only.

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Posted by WVHUNTER24.7 on 05-07-2013 02:59 AM:

After reading the Advisor I may be wrong about your plus tree points. Your situation may be considered as coon caught and only strike points plussed.
What does everyone think? Where is Jim on this?

Posted by Jordan120 on 05-07-2013 03:39 AM:

Brad your right the situation is strike points only to be plussed

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Posted by WVHUNTER24.7 on 05-07-2013 03:44 AM:

I am not sure
The dog was struck and treed but didn't pull the coon out of the hole till after the cast got there.
If they would have tied the dogs back and looked in the hole and seen the coon then the tree points would have been awarded according to rule 3(b).
I am thinking tree points could be awarded here???????????

Posted by Jordan120 on 05-07-2013 03:49 AM:

I'm thinking tree points would be awarded since the cast got there before the coon got pulled out of the hole

Posted by Rocketman55 on 05-07-2013 04:21 AM:

I believe the dogs must be handled before a dog can be scored. Since the dog pulled the coon out prior to the handler catching the dog, only his strike points can be plussed, since he was not yet handled.

As for the dog that held the tree. At the point where you arrived and seen dogs treed in two different locations, you then must consider them split treed. The dog that was on a tree would be scored according to what you seen in the tree. If it were an obvious empty then that dog would be minused strike and tree. If that tree had a place of refuge then you would circle strike and tree of that dog.

Dog(s) that pulled the coon out of the hole would receive plus strike points only. Had they not pulled the coon out you would have then received pluss strike and tree.

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Posted by Paul Frederick on 05-07-2013 01:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rocketman55
I believe the dogs must be handled before a dog can be scored. Since the dog pulled the coon out prior to the handler catching the dog, only his strike points can be plussed, since he was not yet handled.

As for the dog that held the tree. At the point where you arrived and seen dogs treed in two different locations, you then must consider them split treed. The dog that was on a tree would be scored according to what you seen in the tree. If it were an obvious empty then that dog would be minused strike and tree. If that tree had a place of refuge then you would circle strike and tree of that dog.

Dog(s) that pulled the coon out of the hole would receive plus strike points only. Had they not pulled the coon out you would have then received pluss strike and tree.

Dave is right about both points. In reference to the dog pulling the coon out of a hole there is a question very similar to this situation in the April COONHOUND BLOODLINES. Check out the Coonhound Advisor column.

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Posted by JiM on 05-07-2013 02:32 PM:

Re: Rule Question

quote:
Originally posted by Bmh459
i judged my first event the other night and i think i know the rules well but i have 2 questions.
1- does the judge have to tell the cast members what they dog scored on tree? the way i read the rules it says "by request"

This is one of my peeves with many judges today, why would you even ask this question?

A good judge will announce to the the cast every single time he marks anything on the card, every time he starts or breaks a time on a dog and how each dog was scored every time it is scored. That is just part of judging.

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Posted by ssgied on 05-07-2013 03:09 PM:

Scoring at the tree is by vote anyway, how could someone not know. A cast member can request to see the score card at anytime.

Posted by Rob Reid on 05-07-2013 03:26 PM:

Hole

I have not seen anywhere yet where anyone has mentioned the fact that only one dog must show the hole!

Posted by Charles Pullen on 05-07-2013 03:55 PM:

Re: Re: Rule Question

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
This is one of my peeves with many judges today, why would you even ask this question?

A good judge will announce to the the cast every single time he marks anything on the card, every time he starts or breaks a time on a dog and how each dog was scored every time it is scored. That is just part of judging.

Jim , I agree exactly. Also a good practice is tell the cast when you're at the tree to handle these 2 or 3 dogs that's treed . Some times another dog is close but still showing tracking and if gets handled then the guy wants to argue bout you told me to handle my dog. Its eliminates whole lot of arguing .

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