UKC Forums - here's the boys

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-- here's the boys (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928316820)

Posted by Sawblade on 05-02-2013 12:52 AM:

here's the boys

top 5o males by most titled offspring in the last 5 years.

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Posted by Danny McCleskey on 05-02-2013 02:13 AM:

Kelly,
Thanks for posting

__________________
Danny McCleskey
Hartselle, Alabama

Nite Hunt Titled Dogs I Owned

1986 Autumn Oaks National Grand Nite Ch Redbone
GrNiteCh GrCh Key River Rock

1992 Autumn Oaks National Grand Nite Ch Redbone
1992 Autumn Oaks - Overall High Scoring Redbone
GrNiteCh Flint Creek Hustlin Doc

GrNiteCh Flint Creek Hustlin Amy
NiteCh Flint Creek Hustlin Amos
NiteCH Ch Johnos Red Sugar
NiteCh Ch Treefines Firecracker
NiteCh Flint Creek Miss Minnie
NiteCh GrCh Flint Creek Red Champ
NiteCh Guinns Rusty

Posted by Sawblade on 05-02-2013 03:37 AM:

Danny

I knew you would like it. It's pretty cool stuff .

Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-02-2013 03:22 PM:

I noticed something, Rusty Red is # 2, then Bomber is #5 and then there isn't a top male out of Bomber. Did that line get "watered down"? Rat is #14, Rabble is # 3 and Haze is the only male out of Rabble at #28. Has that line been "watered down"? You would think that the top reproducers would reproduce top reproducers right on down the line. What is happening?

Posted by wade lucking on 05-02-2013 04:08 PM:

It's not watered down IMO. The right guy needs to end up with the reproducer and promote and breed them. No mater what people think reproduces bred to reproducers don't mean every pup in a litter will reproduce like there parents. So if the pup lets say in that Litter ends up with someone just looking to get a nice hound with no intention of breeding it. And that pup is a freak of a reproducer well guess what nobody will know it. Again jmo.

__________________
LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-02-2013 04:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wade lucking
It's not watered down IMO. The right guy needs to end up with the reproducer and promote and breed them. No matter what people think reproduces bred to reproducers don't mean every pup in a litter will reproduce like there parents.

I should think that with 400 pups on the ground, one of them would.

Posted by BBQ Guy on 05-02-2013 05:15 PM:

Can you guys educate me? What sires are currently out there out of Zack? Bone?

__________________
Stacey Welch
My kid's dogs, I'm just the driver/part time handler
CH NightCH 'pr' Welch Kid's RedFever lit'l Ann( 1 win towards Grand Night Ch )
Pr Welch Kids RedOak MsKitty

Posted by wade lucking on 05-02-2013 06:31 PM:

400 pups but are the living pups. How many per mantle registered. And out of the how many females. And then how many serious stud dog people are out there. And useing that stock.

Posted by bridger80 on 05-02-2013 07:56 PM:

Who knows anything about Lewis' Jim?

__________________
Swan's Barnyard Huck Finn
Swan's Outlaw Tom Sawyer

Posted by Mossybuck on 05-02-2013 08:22 PM:

How many of the top 10 reproducers are line bred?

__________________
John Queen

NITE.CH Ragged Ridge Reba HTX
GR.CH NITE.CH Hillbilly's Latenite Hope
Ragged Ridge Tap

Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-02-2013 10:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mossybuck
How many of the top 10 reproducers are line bred?

I would like to know...Out of the Top 50, how many with a 9% or better reproduction rate are linebred? There are 18 total with 9% or better. I don't know the pedigree on that many of them but I do know that Rat, Raven and Razor are. I think that Colonel, Doc, Chase and Ace are. How many more/if any are? I wonder how many of them got their high numbers by being bred back to linbred females? I guess that you would have to do a lot more research to come up with all of the answers? Kelly, it looks like your list asks as many questions as it answers.

Since these are "your" lists and this is "your" thread, are you going to answer all of our questions?

Posted by NoahC on 05-03-2013 01:45 AM:

Thanks for the data

Love the list, good read. I only have a few comments...

1 - Families do seem to continue, however the outcross wonders with good #s seem to fade more quickly. Where's gen 3, or 2 in some cases, on some of those guys... #9,10,11,15? I'm not picking, I like some of these dog's background.
2 - 'Breeder' is not accurate, seems to capture who owned the dog last, e.g. I'm fairly certain Nitro was breed by Dan Night
3 - What's the story on Lewis's Jim - what barn is he tied behind?

Personally, I dont' think you breed for great dogs. I think you focus on good dogs, and if you are following proven procedures, very rarely a great one comes along. A lot of what we think of as great, are simply good dogs with the right people behind them. I'd like to see great, but I don't know that they exist. It's like laryngitis, I've never had it, so I still think people are full of it.

Thanks,

Noah

__________________
A Proud Member Of Virginia Coalition for Procyon Lotor Management & Control

Posted by Sawblade on 05-03-2013 04:22 AM:

breeder

Noah, the breeder is the person who is listed on the dogs papers as the breeder. That name can never change . owners can but breeders can't. example . you own a female, you breed her to your neighbors dog. you are now the breeder of all of the pups your female has from that cross.. Your name will always be on those pups papers as the breeder ,the guy that made the cross that produced them.

clear as mud. The breeder tells you who the dog came from as a puppy.

Posted by Iron_Creek on 05-03-2013 01:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BBQ Guy
Can you guys educate me? What sires are currently out there out of Zack? Bone?

If your interested in Bone stud's, Zack Krasa and myself own CH NTCH Locked N Loaded Jake, and Justin Krasa owns GRNTCH CH Locked N Loaded Pistol.

Jake is out of Bone and Sawblade Bean (who is listed on the girls list) and Pistol is out of NTCH Locked N Loaded Pebble (Sand Rock X Nighty Nite Josey).

Also, Kelly Hyde owns two brothers to Jake!

Posted by Sawblade on 05-03-2013 02:55 PM:

how come

Why is it that the boys list has been looked at almost 200 times more than the girls list. The girls all have way better % than the boys. The girls are at least half of the equation. Just wondering.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-03-2013 03:03 PM:

Re: how come

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
Why is it that the boys list has been looked at almost 200 times more than the girls list.

Maybe there are more girls looking for the right boy than there are boys looking for the right girl.

Personally, I don't know how you can look at one without looking at the other. It also seems that a stud has to be gone before they appear on the list. When picking a stud of today, you can only look at where his "family" is on the list. Most of the studs being advertised today aren't even on the list.

Posted by Sawblade on 05-03-2013 03:26 PM:

some thoughts

Richard you are right, almost all the studs are dead. Think about this ,It takes on average 4 years to title a dog fro pup to NiteCh, some much sooner but lets say 4 for average. Many people will not breed to a stud until titled and if it takes another 4 years for the first few pups to get their title than the stud is getting pretty old before we evr hear about them. Same goes for some females but not as much. I think we need to breed to dogs based on several things not titles alone. If you have a dog with a good pedigree ,out of several generations of supercross litters and that dog shows early natural ability. Breed to it before its 2 years old. jmo

Posted by BBQ Guy on 05-03-2013 05:50 PM:

Personally I would like to have the info on the males and the females that are high percentage. I thought Richard new about Zack and Kelly the Bone male. If you haven't been at this along time like myself. It's hard to figure out the line bred dogs that go back to which ancestors.
Thanks for the info makes for interesting reading.

__________________
Stacey Welch
My kid's dogs, I'm just the driver/part time handler
CH NightCH 'pr' Welch Kid's RedFever lit'l Ann( 1 win towards Grand Night Ch )
Pr Welch Kids RedOak MsKitty

Posted by bridger80 on 05-03-2013 11:09 PM:

Kelly
Did you check to see how the two list's(this year and last years) compare to each other?

Was wondering if any percentages changed significantly.

__________________
Swan's Barnyard Huck Finn
Swan's Outlaw Tom Sawyer

Posted by Mossybuck on 05-03-2013 11:14 PM:

I wonder what Kate and Rabble would have threw?? I would say a Gr Nite or 5.

__________________
John Queen

NITE.CH Ragged Ridge Reba HTX
GR.CH NITE.CH Hillbilly's Latenite Hope
Ragged Ridge Tap

Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-03-2013 11:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BBQ Guy
It's hard to figure out the line bred dogs that go back to which ancestors.

Yes it is. But it can be done with some effort and time. Unfortunately sometimes it takes a few years of research. Long Tall Sally is the only dog out of Little Zack that I have a lot of experience with. Little Zack is directly out of Old Zack. There aren't many dogs out of Zack out there so it is hard to linebreed them. Wild Willie has some Zack blood so Steve-O has some which means that the Steve-O X Chilli pups do. The Warrior/Chief dogs have some Zack blood. Moose, being out of Sally has some Zack blood. I have a 13 mos old male pup out of Moose and a Little Zack female that has Little Zack on the top and bottom but he isn't a stud yet. Little Zack is L's Crosscountry Bear's Grandsire but Bear is only 1 yr old. And Mr Ron Wolter is actually the Zack expert.

Posted by 1deadeye on 05-03-2013 11:31 PM:

I'd like to see the walkers top ten and compare it to this top ten.

Scott

__________________
Red Ryder coonhounds.
Home of the
Xtreme Hyde Dawg

Home of,
PR Nitech Leinie Red Ryder
PR Jan Da Red Ryder Butcher ( JJ )

Posted by Sawblade on 05-04-2013 12:57 AM:

Zack and ????

Richard, maybe you didn't know so I'll let ya in on a little secret. The Bean dog that is on the girls list #20 I think .She is out of GrNite Sioux River JJ Junior. Junior is a grandson of old Zack .
Bean was bred to the Bone dog #24 when we had her here. I would call that cross a S-cross. Funny how so many of the dogs on these lists are intertwined.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-04-2013 05:18 AM:

Re: Zack and ????

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
Funny how so many of the dogs on these lists are intertwined.

Now I remember, Junior's mother was out of Zack. One of Pastor Mike's T-Top females was bred to Jr once before he got her. Was Bean out of that cross?

Posted by jdgher on 05-04-2013 07:07 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I would like to know...Out of the Top 50, how many with a 9% or better reproduction rate are linebred? There are 18 total with 9% or better. I don't know the pedigree on that many of them but I do know that Rat, Raven and Razor are. I think that Colonel, Doc, Chase and Ace are. How many more/if any are? I wonder how many of them got their high numbers by being bred back to linbred females? I guess that you would have to do a lot more research to come up with all of the answers? Kelly, it looks like your list asks as many questions as it answers. Since these are "your" lists and this is "your" thread, are you going to answer all of our questions?

Richard,
Are you saying that the offspring that got them on the list are linebred? Or the dog listed? Example: Doc is not linebred that I know of.

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

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