UKC Forums - UKC vs PKC or Coondog vs Babbling me too!!

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-- UKC vs PKC or Coondog vs Babbling me too!! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928306586)

Posted by JimmyJohnson on 03-06-2013 07:10 PM:

UKC vs PKC or Coondog vs Babbling me too!!

Boys I have about had it with the mentality of strike points being equal to tree points. I have had a young female that is a get alone by herself with a coon dog. Every breath pressure tree dog that trees coons no matter where you drop her. She is a third or fourth strike dog and a first tree dog. This female has only been in 3 cast all PKC hunts and the ONLY dog to tree coons in her cast each time. she has lost her cast every time by 25 points. The babbling me to cover dogs are winning over a coon dog. Wake up people !!!!! The dog that trees all the coons has a hard time winning in PKC today. Heck there are folks even breeding for the automatic strike dog that covers on a squeak. I guess money really is the root of all evil in more ways than one. I'm just thankful UKC has not compromised the value of the coon dog by keeping the tree most valued at 125 points. Guess i won't be wasting any more money in PKC. I have become a UKC supporter. Have any of you witnessed the same thing going on sense PKC hunts have become more popular ?

__________________
Jimmy Johnson
Legacy Farm & Kennel
Mogadore, Ohio
330-406-6277

Posted by Frank M on 03-06-2013 07:27 PM:

In my experience the same dogs I draw thru the week are the ones I draw on the weekends. I don't see how the babbler is beating you unless they hit the same tree as your dog does right behind yours. I don't know which kc has better dogs I see babbling idiots at both hunts. For the most part they don't win up here in Michigan. I will say its harder to make a dog PKC champion than it is a night champion or it has been for me anyway.

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Frank Manning
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Posted by JimmyJohnson on 03-06-2013 07:42 PM:

Frank

the hour hunt is harder to get off away from other dogs that want to cover and hang on to the dog doing all the work.

__________________
Jimmy Johnson
Legacy Farm & Kennel
Mogadore, Ohio
330-406-6277

Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 03-06-2013 07:48 PM:

I saw some guys on Prohound complaining about silent dogs also. I believe silent dogs are legal in PKC. I know UKC has a rule against silent dogs but I know of a number of UKC Grand Nite Champion silent dogs.

I curently hunt silent Cur dogs. I like 'em. I never could stand a babbler. I am happy I no longer attend Nite Hunts.

__________________
Dave Haugh

LAKELAND KENNELS
____________________________
English Coonhounds
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Gr Ch Lakeland's Phoebe
PKC Sq Ch Lakeland's Mini Mouse
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Mt Curs
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Ch SqCh Lakeland's Lucy
SqCh Lakeland's Goldie
SqCh Lakeland's Kate
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Beagles
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Dual GrCh Blank's Midnight
GrCh HBCh Lakeland's Cricket II

_______________________________

Posted by tim griffin on 03-06-2013 07:56 PM:

Wow I hunt mainly pkc and see less me too dogs in the whole year than I see in one ukc hunt. I go to a ukc hunt with my pkc dog and he sneaks away gets treed and the other bust there butts a mile to go to him and he gets beat after doing all the work and a dog covers him for 75 after being treed for 4:30. Where they do that ina pkc hunt they only getting a quarter put in tree time that gets rid of the cover dogs unless they are super at it

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Posted by JimmyJohnson on 03-06-2013 07:58 PM:

Lakeland

Night hunts are good if they are structured to reward and show case the dogs that will improve our breeds. I'm not so sure equal points for strike and tree is actually doing that.

__________________
Jimmy Johnson
Legacy Farm & Kennel
Mogadore, Ohio
330-406-6277

Posted by JimmyJohnson on 03-06-2013 08:02 PM:

Tim

I see your point in your case. It could be a regional thing too. Maybe the a dead loner type dog isnt what i need in Ohio. Its only been three cast so maybe I will get in some different company some time

__________________
Jimmy Johnson
Legacy Farm & Kennel
Mogadore, Ohio
330-406-6277

Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 03-06-2013 08:03 PM:

Re: Lakeland

quote:
Originally posted by JimmyJohnson
Night hunts are good if they are structured to reward and show case the dogs that will improve our breeds. I'm not so sure equal points for strike and tree is actually doing that.

I am not 100% that most "competition" bred dogs improve the various breeds. They just reproduce more dogs that win in compitition with bred in faults like babbling, jockeying at the tree and silent trailing that win in compitition.

Posted by tim griffin on 03-06-2013 08:16 PM:

Re: Tim

quote:
Originally posted by JimmyJohnson
I see your point in your case. It could be a regional thing too. Maybe the a dead loner type dog isnt what i need in Ohio. Its only been three cast so maybe I will get in some different company some time

most dogs you see in pkc will be dead loners (at the big hunts) but it aggravates me that a dog struck for 100 or 75 can run around all night and cover a dog that has been treed for 4 minutes and still get 75 tee points it's not fair to the dog that done the work

Posted by JimmyJohnson on 03-06-2013 08:18 PM:

Tim

Exactly

__________________
Jimmy Johnson
Legacy Farm & Kennel
Mogadore, Ohio
330-406-6277

Posted by CoonBusterWV on 03-06-2013 08:27 PM:

Re: Re: Tim

quote:
Originally posted by tim griffin
most dogs you see in pkc will be dead loners (at the big hunts) but it aggravates me that a dog struck for 100 or 75 can run around all night and cover a dog that has been treed for 4 minutes and still get 75 tee points it's not fair to the dog that done the work

Ain't that the truth..the whole statement!

__________________
Justin Henthorne-304-203-1100

Posted by Jarrod Washburn on 03-06-2013 08:35 PM:

Fact

I'd like to see a point count down in ukc. ALOT of hunts would have different endings for sure

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Jarrod Washburn GO HARD ENGLISH KENNELS Home Of:

GrCh.Nite Ch. Pr' Outlaws Jesse James (2014 Performance sire)
Pr'GoHards Snow White(out back dan X bakers white trash)

Posted by jdc on 03-06-2013 08:50 PM:

I would not be against the countdown at all but fact is babbling is a much bigger problem facing UKC than the count down.

__________________
Justen Cooper
660-351-4941
Cooper Creek Kennels
Home of
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Co-owner Tyler Gilkey

Posted by JimmyJohnson on 03-06-2013 09:23 PM:

Regardless

Regardless we all agree that the automatic strike dog , babbling, our just plain open off the leash and never shut up dog is a problem we all face in the competition world. its difficult to discuss at time because there are more and more of them showing up every year. People that own them are proud of it and think we are just a bunch of cry babies.

__________________
Jimmy Johnson
Legacy Farm & Kennel
Mogadore, Ohio
330-406-6277

Posted by mleck on 03-06-2013 09:43 PM:

i agree that babbling is a huge problem but it is very hard to enforce something that 75% of the judges or hunters is not smart enough to know what is happening. Amazes me how old honest gets struck at a 100yds every drop and they are considered a heck of a strike dog. Lol its hard to fix ignorance. The tree count down is something very easy to enforce and NEEDS to become part of ukc if they want to improve the quality of the coondog . Just my opinion of corse

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PR. NT CH. Lecks KS. RebelxPatch Reba. co-owned with Ethan seller

From the past and greatly missed!!!!

GR. NT. CH. Leck's KS Tree Assassins Patches HTX
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Posted by boots_o1 on 03-06-2013 10:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by tim griffin
Wow I hunt mainly pkc and see less me too dogs in the whole year than I see in one ukc hunt. I go to a ukc hunt with my pkc dog and he sneaks away gets treed and the other bust there butts a mile to go to him and he gets beat after doing all the work and a dog covers him for 75 after being treed for 4:30. Where they do that ina pkc hunt they only getting a quarter put in tree time that gets rid of the cover dogs unless they are super at it

.
.........

I sorry wish I had ole girl back for that reason

Posted by BRANDON KING on 03-06-2013 11:33 PM:

Jimmy, I hunt both kc's and will win with either type of dog my favorite is about semi silent. They dont let everyone know where they are goin and then wam it is over. And on the other hand if i can get one that will drift the ghost coon i'm way ahead out of the gate. There is one thing that beats most all of those running everywhere behind the other dogs is a sure a nuff coondog. Plus points beats circle in any kc you want to hunt. You will get in the groove with yours if she will keep them coons looking. GOODLUCK

Posted by Bullet on 03-07-2013 06:40 PM:

If you want to really cut down on the number of titled ME TOO dogs then take this advise. UKC should put in a rule that requires a dog to have an HTX title prior to being eligible for a Nite Ch title. PKC should initiate a similar rule. Then a Nite Ch title and a PKC ch title should never be a ME TOO dog.

__________________
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Orebank Creek Kennels
Know Jesus.....Know Peace
No Jesus.....No Peace

Posted by John Garrison on 03-17-2013 02:36 AM:

in my opinion they should do away with the 1min babbling rule , it was put in effect to only help the babbler, if they babble have them move the track away or they get minus , another rule that should be changed is if your dog split trees you should get your strike pts moved up to 100 pts no matter what you were struck in at , that keeps the babbler that runs all nite an keeps strike opens so that you only get 25 pts from winning to a winner winner chicken dinner. This post has been approved by John Garrison

Posted by terno on 03-17-2013 02:45 AM:

Nobody forces anybody to go to a comp coon hunt. When you go you already know the rules. If you don't like them don't go. I hunt Pkc and ukc. I like em both.... People just need to be thankful they can go hunting. Sick of hearing people bitch about the rules. If you don't like them start your own kennel club and then you won't have to worry......

Posted by Climb or Die on 03-17-2013 03:24 AM:

how about this 50 first strike 25 anything after anydog by itself get moved up to the 50 strike cause it was the first to strike that coon and only one tree position 1st for a 100

Posted by LIL-E on 03-17-2013 05:41 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Climb or Die
how about this 50 first strike 25 anything after anydog by itself get moved up to the 50 strike cause it was the first to strike that coon and only one tree position 1st for a 100

I like this for sure.

Posted by boots_o1 on 03-17-2013 09:14 AM:

Sure wish I had a cricket lol

Posted by tim griffin on 03-17-2013 09:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by boots_o1
Sure wish I had a cricket lol

I'm pretty sure that's directed for me she good at what she does

Posted by boots_o1 on 03-17-2013 09:45 AM:

What you talking about she I'd freaking AMAZING AT WHAT SHE DO

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