UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- to much protein (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928298228)

to much protein

I have a 18month old dog that was about starved when I got him i work at arbys and I've been getting the roast beef their and feeding it everyday he is back to a good.size but I've debated on still doing now that he is healthy could I be doing damage by feeding him to much protein

if that was true my dogs would already be dead! haha i feed half 32 percent protein cat food with 12 percent fat and 27 percent dog food with 20 percent fat and still pour bacon or eny fatty grease over it i go back to regular 20/18 dog food doing the summer though just make sure its some good dog food you will get what you payed for although if your not going to be hunting the dog purina dog chow and stuff like that will do just fine.

__________________
Been foolen with walkers since I was five be
foolen with them on the day I die.

That's what I though I just didn't know if it would cause any kind of internal.problems

Purina Dog Chow

I feed mine Purina Dog Chow all year and they do just fine. Just cause it don't cost $50 per bag doesn't mean it isn't a good feed. I do give mine some canned food also when it's real cold or hunting real hard, but it isn't necessary.

__________________
Bawl, Chop, Bang, Thump.

PR. Missouri Hi-Dollar Slowpoke HTX

PR. Missouri Nite Hunt Hitman - R.I.P
08-08-2013 - 07-15-2015
Starved to death by a S.O.B named Austin Tibbits.

American Black and Tan Coon Hounds
----------------------------------------------------------

Nt.Ch. "PR." Wildside's BugEyed Betty (W)

Matthew Fann
816-565-1660

I'm coming to your house for supper, if that what your feeding! He is eating better than I am!!! And no, it wont harm it at all. He may get alittle hot in the summer time hunting, just cut him back some. I can also tell you this... That dog will love you and NEVER forget that you prolly saved his life. Keep up the good work!!!

Protien

I don't think it will hurt he .I feed a 24/20 all yr. any hound thats hunted much needs it .

it want hurt him,i would say its better then any dog feed you can buy from a store, and besides its free whats not to like lol. the only thing i would watch feeding them beef is there weight.

Adding meat is great but I would see if that roast beef has added salt or other spices.

You can't really overdue protein. A body doesn't have the ability to store protein, so when it uses all it can, it passes the rest out. I always thought it was funny watching younger athletes taking in as much weigh protein as they can when they don't realize they are literally pissing money away.

__________________
Walk softly and carry a big stick.

a dog can only utilize about 24% protein the excess protein is passed with urine.feeding high levels of protein can cause kidney and liver issues in some dogs mainly dogs over 6 years of age.Excess protein can cause high levels of uric acid which also can lead to joint swelling in some dogs.
Why pay for excess protein that can't be utilized by your dog.
Most feed companies want you to believe more is better but more is not better and can cause health problems especially in older dogs.
Information obtained from Lisa Brabham DVM

Big John Whigham

bluedawg

U are right. got an uncle that fed his walker high pro in the summer and almost killed him. messed up his kidneys. High pro in the summer is bad news.u

__________________
Hunt with WALKER

Is too much protein harmful?

Old wives tales about dry dog foods high in protein causing kidney disease run rampant both on and off the internet and many people deprive their dogs of what they crave most for fear of damaging their health.

Unfortunately the whole protein thing is not easily explained in just a few sentences, so bear with me if I ramble on for a while. I'll try to keep it as simple and straightforward as possible without going too much into scientific terms.

First of all, it is important that we understand that protein isn't only a nutrient - the amino acids it is made up of (think lego bricks forming a bigger structure) also serve as building blocks for body tissues, organs, enzymes, hormones, antibodies and so on - roughly half of the dry body mass of a dog consists of protein. Knowing this it is easy to understand that growing puppies need protein to build above mentioned body tissues, organs, enzymes, hormones, antibodies and both adults and growing puppies constantly need to replace and rebuild these as well. The body recycles amino acids to some extent, but part of them need to be replaced, just like you can't endlessly recycle paper or plastic.

Protein is processed in the liver and any waste materials are filtered and excreted by the kidneys. High quality protein does not generate large amounts of waste that needs to be removed from the body, but poor quality protein which is difficult to digest does and thus puts stress on the kidneys. The liver needs water to process protein and as a medium to carry waste products to the kidneys, where they are filtered out and most of the water is reabsorbed. The less concentrated the waste products in this primary filtrate are, the easier it is for the kidneys to do their filtering work - that's why it is unhealthy to feed dry food only and so critical that dogs eating mostly or exclusively dry food and dogs with liver disease get lots of extra water. Dogs who eat mostly canned food or a home prepared diet automatically take in more moisture and do not need to compensate as much by drinking. Contrary to what many people think and pet food companies claim, dogs (and cats) do not know instinctively how much extra water they have to drink to make up for what is lacking in the dry food. This is why I so highly recommend that people always add water to the kibble at feeding time.

Now that we have the basics laid out, we can return to the protein in the food. Many people cite old, outdated research that claims high protein percentages in the food are harmful to dogs and do all kinds of damage, especially to the liver. Fact is that these studies were conducted by feeding dogs foods that were made from poor quality, hard to digest protein sources, such as soy, corn, byproducts, blood meal and so on. From my explanation above, you now already know that it is a question of protein quality that affects the kidneys. Consider a wolf in the wild, who will eat relatively little else but meat if they can help it - these animals don't get kidney diseases on the same scale domestic dogs do. Their protein comes in the form of quality muscle and organ meat though, not processed leftovers from human food processing. It also contains around 70% moisture, whereas most commercial dry foods contain a maximum of 10%. Dogs and other "dog like" animals (canids) evolved eating a diet that consists primarily of meat, fat and bones, which they have been eating for hundreds of thousands of years. Commercial foods, especially dry food, has only been widely available for the past 60 years and we are still learning how much damage certain aspects of it can do. Things have improved quite a bit from hitting rock bottom in the 70s and 80s, but the majority of pet food manufacturers still produce bad foods from poor quality ingredients.

Just to digress for a moment, when I went to the grocery storeyesterday, I saw that Purina Dog Chow was on sale, $8 for a 22 pound bag. That's a little over 36 cents per pound, including the profit the supermarket makes on it, cost for the pretty, colorful packaging, advertising and all. On top of that, of course the manufacturer (Nestle/Purina) wants to make a profit too. How much do you think the food actually costs them just to make, without any profits? The answer is pennies per pound, which also reflects the ingredient quality. If I calculate a 40% profit margin for each the supermarket and the manufacturer, it comes to about 13 cents per pound. That's $260 per ton of food. Yikes.

Anyway, back to the protein. Protein in dog food can come from either plant or meat sources. Logically, plant sources are cheaper, especially considering that corn gluten meal, the most popular, cheap protein booster, is a byproduct of the human food processing industry, left over from making corn starch and corn syrup. It has a crude protein content of 60%, so theoretically even if your food recipe contained no other protein sources at all, you could make a food with a 20% crude protein content by mixing it 1:2 with some cheap carb source.

It is critical to stress that the term "crude protein" is used in the guaranteed analysis, which means there is no statement whatsoever as to its digestibility. Protein comes in many forms, even shoe leather, chicken feathers or cow hooves have a fairly high crude protein content, but the body is only able to extract and process very little of it, at the price of a lot of work and stress to do so.

Due to this labeling issue (only one of many, many others), the percentage of protein in a food by itself doesn't say anything at all. Ingredient lists are not 100% straightforward and truthful either, but at least you can somewhat gauge if there's even any quality protein in there at all.

Just to illustrate once again by example, let's say we have two foods which have the same percentages of protein, fat, carbohydrates, fiber and moisture. Food A contains 25% protein that is 60% digestible and food B contains 25% protein that is 85% digestible. That means of food A the body is able to utilize 15% of the protein content, but of food B 21.25%. Logically, to meet the body's requirement of protein, you'd have to feed more of food A than of food B, and the body of the dog eating food B will have to work less to utilize it.

I guess in really simple terms you can compare it to the engine of a car and the type of fuel you use. Just because you use high octane gas in a car that doesn't need it, it's not going to do any damage, but if you use poor quality fuel, regardless whether it is high or low octane, there will be buildup in the engine that hampers performance and will eventually lead to damage.

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/a...284&aid=459


Does a high protein percentage (as shown on the package) mean that a pet food is automatically better than others with lower percentages?
No, a higher percentage of protein doesn't mean that a pet food is automatically better than others with a lower percentage. Similarly, a lower protein percentage isn't automatically bad, provided that the protein included in the food comes from a good source (such as real chicken or real lamb meat). Don't rely solely on the percentage of crude protein shown in the guaranteed analysis on the package. While it is tempting to assume that a high percentage of protein means that a food contains a lot of beneficial protein (and is therefore better than comparable foods), this is not always the case. Always evaluate the source of the protein - not just the amount - when considering/comparing pet foods.
[ Back to Top ]

Why do dogs need protein?
Proteins are necessary for all aspects of growth and development and are very important in structural makeup and the immune system. In addition, they are burned as calories and can be converted to and stored as fat.

Dogs actually require 22 amino acids (the building blocks that make up proteins). Dogs can synthesize 12 of these amino acids; the remaining ones - essential amino acids - must be consumed. Essential amino acids for dogs include: arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine. A deficiency in any of the amino acids can cause health problems.
[ Back to Top ]

Can I tell which proteins are better than others?
Not all proteins are created equal, and some are better for pets than others. Every protein source contains different levels of amino acids and each protein is different in its ability to be broken down into amino acids. The ability of a protein to be used by the body and its amount of usable amino acids is termed biological value. Egg has the highest biological value and sets the standard by which other proteins are judged. Egg has a biological value of 100. Fish meal and milk are close behind with a value of 92. Beef is around 78 and soybean meal is 67. Meat and bone meal and wheat are around 50 and corn is 45. Things like hair and feathers would be very high in protein but would be down at the bottom of the list for biological value.
[ Back to Top ]

How much protein does my dog need?
Protein requirements vary from species to species and can vary greatly during the rapid growth stages and for elderly animals with compromised kidneys. As a general rule, the following levels apply.





Species and Growth Stage

Recommended Protein %

Recommended Fat %



Puppy

28%

17%



Adult Dog

18%

9-15%



Performance Dog

25%

20%



Racing Sled Dog

35%

50%



Lactating Dog

28%

17%


Pregnant and lactating dogs may need to be fed puppy food to give them higher levels of necessary protein. Sick, weak, and debilitated animals also need extra protein. Animals with kidney disease may need to be on a protein-restricted diet to lessen the effects of the kidney disease.
[ Back to Top ]

Can I feed my dog too much protein?
If your dog eats too much protein, some will be excreted in the urine and the rest will be used as calories or converted to fat - causing your dog no harm. However, if your dog has a kidney problem, high protein diets are not recommended. Most pet food companies slightly exceed the minimum recommended protein requirements to ensure that dogs get adequate protein from their food.
[ Back to Top ]

How can I tell if my food has enough protein?
Generally, purchasing a reputable, quality brand of dog food that fits your dog's activity level will be just fine. However if your dog has special protein needs, or you want to find the best possible food for your budget, then you must interpret the often-confusing label.

Keep in mind that the protein level shown on the bag or can does not indicate the percentage of digestible protein, just the overall protein content. In quality foods, digestibility is between 70 and 80%. In lesser-quality foods, the digestibility could drop to 60% or less. To roughly determine the amount of digestible protein, read the ingredients and note the order in which they appear. Ingredients are listed in order of weight. Chicken and lamb are very digestible, and if they are listed as the first ingredient on the label, you can assume the food is a good quality protein source. If the first ingredient is chicken by-product or other meat by-products (which are lower in digestibility), the food is an acceptable protein source. Poorly digestible sources include meat and bone meal.

Remember, grains are not as digestible sources of protein and contribute heavily toward the carbohydrate load. Some companies will list a meat source initially, then follow that meat by three different forms of corn - hiding the fact that the main ingredient is corn, just divided into three different products.

It is a good idea to follow this general rule: try to find a food in the upper to middle price range. And keep in mind the highest-priced foods are not necessarily the best foods, and the lowest-priced foods are not always of poor quality.
[ Back to Top ]

Does high protein cause kidney disease?
No. This myth probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low-protein (and thus low-nitrogen) diets. Today, we often put them on a diet that is not necessarily very low in protein, but instead contains protein that is more digestible (therefore producing fewer nitrogen by-products). These diet changes are made merely because damaged kidneys may not be able to handle the excess nitrogen efficiently. In pets with existing kidney problems, nitrogen can become too high in the bloodstream which can harm other tissues.

Unless your veterinarian has told you your pet has a kidney problem that is severe enough to adjust the protein intake, you can feed your pet a normal amount of protein without worrying about "damaging" or "stressing" your pet's kidneys. Also, keep in mind the fact that you are not "saving" your pet's kidneys by feeding a low-protein diet.
[ Back to Top ]

Is meat meal good for my pet?
In its simplest, purest form, meat meal is meat with the water and fat removed. The dried meat is then ground into small granules or powder for use in pet food. Pure meat meal, as opposed to meat and bone meal or meat by-product meal, is a good source of concentrated protein which is nutritionally excellent for your pet. Pure meat meal cannot contain blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, or stomach or rumen contents, except for amounts that may be unavoidably included during processing. It cannot contain any added extraneous materials, and may not contain any more than 14 percent indigestive materials. Also, no more than 11 percent of the crude protein in the meal can be ingredients the dog cannot digest.

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

Re: bluedawg

quote:

---

Originally posted by ghosthunter50
U are right. got an uncle that fed his walker high pro in the summer and almost killed him. messed up his kidneys. High pro in the summer is bad news.u

---

I have fed 32/25 feed year round. It won't heat your dog up, cause kidney damage, cause hot spots, etc. if you hunt. My dogs get hunted 4 to 7 nights a week. Thats not bs, thats fact. I feed a no grain feed and it has high quality protein and fat. Every dog is different but if are hunted are atheletes. They need a quality feed. Not just what is the cheapest. Besides, don't you think we would have a bunch of bodybuilders and football players, etc. full of kidney and liver damage if protein caused all the damage that some claim. What keeps them from over-heating? From what I have read by some, I would have alot of vet bills. I tell you what I do have, some of the more muscled up in shape hounds you can find anywhere. If a dog is going to work hard, I feed it good for the work it does for me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bobby Reynolds
I have fed 32/25 feed year round. It won't heat your dog up, cause kidney damage, cause hot spots, etc. if you hunt. My dogs get hunted 4 to 7 nights a week. Thats not bs, thats fact. I feed a no grain feed and it has high quality protein and fat. Every dog is different but if are hunted are atheletes. They need a quality feed. Not just what is the cheapest. Besides, don't you think we would have a bunch of bodybuilders and football players, etc. full of kidney and liver damage if protein caused all the damage that some claim. What keeps them from over-heating? From what I have read by some, I would have alot of vet bills. I tell you what I do have, some of the more muscled up in shape hounds you can find anywhere. If a dog is going to work hard, I feed it good for the work it does for me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Majestic Tree H
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/a...284&aid=459


Does a high protein percentage (as shown on the package) mean that a pet food is automatically better than others with lower percentages?
No, a higher percentage of protein doesn't mean that a pet food is automatically better than others with a lower percentage. Similarly, a lower protein percentage isn't automatically bad, provided that the protein included in the food comes from a good source (such as real chicken or real lamb meat). Don't rely solely on the percentage of crude protein shown in the guaranteed analysis on the package. While it is tempting to assume that a high percentage of protein means that a food contains a lot of beneficial protein (and is therefore better than comparable foods), this is not always the case. Always evaluate the source of the protein - not just the amount - when considering/comparing pet foods.
[ Back to Top ]

Why do dogs need protein?
Proteins are necessary for all aspects of growth and development and are very important in structural makeup and the immune system. In addition, they are burned as calories and can be converted to and stored as fat.

Dogs actually require 22 amino acids (the building blocks that make up proteins). Dogs can synthesize 12 of these amino acids; the remaining ones - essential amino acids - must be consumed. Essential amino acids for dogs include: arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine. A deficiency in any of the amino acids can cause health problems.
[ Back to Top ]

Can I tell which proteins are better than others?
Not all proteins are created equal, and some are better for pets than others. Every protein source contains different levels of amino acids and each protein is different in its ability to be broken down into amino acids. The ability of a protein to be used by the body and its amount of usable amino acids is termed biological value. Egg has the highest biological value and sets the standard by which other proteins are judged. Egg has a biological value of 100. Fish meal and milk are close behind with a value of 92. Beef is around 78 and soybean meal is 67. Meat and bone meal and wheat are around 50 and corn is 45. Things like hair and feathers would be very high in protein but would be down at the bottom of the list for biological value.
[ Back to Top ]

How much protein does my dog need?
Protein requirements vary from species to species and can vary greatly during the rapid growth stages and for elderly animals with compromised kidneys. As a general rule, the following levels apply.





Species and Growth Stage

Recommended Protein %

Recommended Fat %



Puppy

28%

17%



Adult Dog

18%

9-15%



Performance Dog

25%

20%



Racing Sled Dog

35%

50%



Lactating Dog

28%

17%


Pregnant and lactating dogs may need to be fed puppy food to give them higher levels of necessary protein. Sick, weak, and debilitated animals also need extra protein. Animals with kidney disease may need to be on a protein-restricted diet to lessen the effects of the kidney disease.
[ Back to Top ]

Can I feed my dog too much protein?
If your dog eats too much protein, some will be excreted in the urine and the rest will be used as calories or converted to fat - causing your dog no harm. However, if your dog has a kidney problem, high protein diets are not recommended. Most pet food companies slightly exceed the minimum recommended protein requirements to ensure that dogs get adequate protein from their food.
[ Back to Top ]

How can I tell if my food has enough protein?
Generally, purchasing a reputable, quality brand of dog food that fits your dog's activity level will be just fine. However if your dog has special protein needs, or you want to find the best possible food for your budget, then you must interpret the often-confusing label.

Keep in mind that the protein level shown on the bag or can does not indicate the percentage of digestible protein, just the overall protein content. In quality foods, digestibility is between 70 and 80%. In lesser-quality foods, the digestibility could drop to 60% or less. To roughly determine the amount of digestible protein, read the ingredients and note the order in which they appear. Ingredients are listed in order of weight. Chicken and lamb are very digestible, and if they are listed as the first ingredient on the label, you can assume the food is a good quality protein source. If the first ingredient is chicken by-product or other meat by-products (which are lower in digestibility), the food is an acceptable protein source. Poorly digestible sources include meat and bone meal.

Remember, grains are not as digestible sources of protein and contribute heavily toward the carbohydrate load. Some companies will list a meat source initially, then follow that meat by three different forms of corn - hiding the fact that the main ingredient is corn, just divided into three different products.

It is a good idea to follow this general rule: try to find a food in the upper to middle price range. And keep in mind the highest-priced foods are not necessarily the best foods, and the lowest-priced foods are not always of poor quality.
[ Back to Top ]

Does high protein cause kidney disease?
No. This myth probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low-protein (and thus low-nitrogen) diets. Today, we often put them on a diet that is not necessarily very low in protein, but instead contains protein that is more digestible (therefore producing fewer nitrogen by-products). These diet changes are made merely because damaged kidneys may not be able to handle the excess nitrogen efficiently. In pets with existing kidney problems, nitrogen can become too high in the bloodstream which can harm other tissues.

Unless your veterinarian has told you your pet has a kidney problem that is severe enough to adjust the protein intake, you can feed your pet a normal amount of protein without worrying about "damaging" or "stressing" your pet's kidneys. Also, keep in mind the fact that you are not "saving" your pet's kidneys by feeding a low-protein diet.
[ Back to Top ]

Is meat meal good for my pet?
In its simplest, purest form, meat meal is meat with the water and fat removed. The dried meat is then ground into small granules or powder for use in pet food. Pure meat meal, as opposed to meat and bone meal or meat by-product meal, is a good source of concentrated protein which is nutritionally excellent for your pet. Pure meat meal cannot contain blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, or stomach or rumen contents, except for amounts that may be unavoidably included during processing. It cannot contain any added extraneous materials, and may not contain any more than 14 percent indigestive materials. Also, no more than 11 percent of the crude protein in the meal can be ingredients the dog cannot digest.

---

__________________
Always be yourself because the people that matter dont mind and the people that mind dont matter.Rock River Plotts