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-- Stud Criteria (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928291305)

Stud Criteria

OK, recognizing that there are many considerations on paper (lineage, your desire to line breed or make an out-cross) before you ever select a stud or line to breed to, what do you take into considerations, next??? In other words, once you've analyzed the DNA, what physical traits, characteristics, or other considerations do you use to make the final decision? Let's say you could go hunting with every stud out there... what would you be looking for?

Loudness, tree style, looks, etc. etc???

Just curious what peoples' deciding factors, are...

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

First of all, I wouldn't be hunting every stud out there.I would be hunting offspring so I can see what he is reproducing.Then I would determine if I was going to linebreed or outcross.Titles don't mean a lot to me and all the reproducers list tells me is that so many people took so many pups to the hunts and put a title on them.Breed for balance not extremes.

Glynn Holmes
www.tellsblueticks.webs.com

Glynn - I appreciate your sentiment, as you are right, the only real way to tell what a dog will reproduce is hunt with what it HAS reproduced. And for that matter, I'd also like to hunt with that stud's parents, to determine what other potential recessive traits are lingering.

BUT... if you hunt with a dog's pup, but don't hunt with him, all you see is the results of the cross, and have no way of knowing who contributed what. And even if you hunt with the parents of a stud, you would still need to hunt with all of the stud's littermates, to even scratch the surface on what characteristics are in the gene pool.

So, assuming most of us don't have the time to hunt with every stud's off-spring, siblings and parents, and in most cases don't even have time and money to hunt with every stud we're interested in, we have to make some decisions based on what we can see, smell and hear. And in all likelihood we have narrowed that down to the stud himself, after we poor over statistics and pedigrees. And so if you have narrowed it down to a couple two or three studs based on whatever other criteria you use, then what do you look for???

People go to a car dealership with a list of thigs in their head (some like me have actually written that list down!) that they want to check out during a test-drive. So if you are hunting with a potential stud, what are you checking off in your mind?

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Nose , tracking ability, hard hunter ; mouth.

Looks are at the bottom of the pole for me

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Home of :
GrNtCh PKC ch Skuna River Fred Bear
GrNtCh Skuna River Bear
NtCh PKCCh Skuna River Faith
NtCh PKC Ch Catch This
Silver Ch River Bend Lacey

Hey... there's a name I remember! Happy Holidays Daniel...

When you say hard hunting, do you mean deep or thorough?

Thanks!

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

quote:

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Originally posted by Dwils
Nose , tracking ability, hard hunter ; mouth.

Looks are at the bottom of the pole for me

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i don't care what the stud can do i want to see pups out of him hunt possible out of three different litters to see what he can produce.

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shawn stovall
wyandotte, ok
shawnstovall2001@yahoo.com
918-961-2434
Home to:
Pr S&J's Shack's Backwoods Patches (walker)
'PR' Stovall's Black Knight Wild Willy
Past Home to:
dual grand stovall's black knight george (gone but not forgotten)
pr D&S' black little luke (1st and 3rd place wins) (davis black luke x paynes black june) gone but not forgotten
Dual Grand Davis' black hutch (gone but not forgotten)

Shawn, would you not assume that the best you could hope for is that the pups act like the parents? And if that's the case, wouldn't you want to see what those traits are?

Again, I completely agree with seeing what his offspring do, but since you would be breeding your female, and not those offspring's mama to him, wouldn't you want to see him in action? I'm not questioning your wanting to see pups, but help me understand why you don't care to see what he is like?

Thanks!

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

quote:

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Originally posted by shawnstovall
i don't care what the stud can do i want to see pups out of him hunt possible out of three different litters to see what he can produce.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

OK guys, let me aske the same question (that is in my head) a different way...

What traits, talents or characteristics would you be looking for in the offspring of the stud you are about to select? That's really what I was looking for, not which generation you looked to.

Thanks... good dialogue!

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Hunting with pups out of a stud don't mean all that much , when it comes down to it no amount of research or analyzing or hunting can trump your gut feeling ... better to go with your gut and get duds now and then than to go against it and not be happy.

The percentage of truly outstanding coondogs out there is so small and comes from such a variety of breeding methods and strains that all you can do is hunt dogs you like first and foremost ... and secondly breed and experiment to hopefully get lucky and replace them.

#1 Intelligence.

#2 Open trailer

#3 Runs to catch

#4 Takes tracks as they come to them

#5 Trees and stays

#6 Consistency

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

I have to respectfully disagree with Dirtdevil. A person can make good breeding decisions with research, but following one's gut feelings also has merit.

If you look at many of the dog breeding books out, you will see many have the word Art in the title.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

quote:

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Originally posted by Dirtdevil
Hunting with pups out of a stud don't mean all that much , when it comes down to it no amount of research or analyzing or hunting can trump your gut feeling ... better to go with your gut and get duds now and then than to go against it and not be happy.

The percentage of truly outstanding coondogs out there is so small and comes from such a variety of breeding methods and strains that all you can do is hunt dogs you like first and foremost ... and secondly breed and experiment to hopefully get lucky and replace them.

---

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Bad decisions make good stories.

The biggie for me is i want to see some BALANCE between their desire to run a track and the desire to get hooked. To much of either is a deal breaker.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

here i will clarify on what i stated above. If you hunt with his pups out of different litters then you will see similarities in the pups such as track speed, loudness, treeing ability and etc.... each pup should carry some of those similarities and yes i know that the female breed too has alot to do with it but the stud does put his share into. I like for a stud to be able to produce a pup that is louder than himself and I currently hunt a dog out of a stud which does that but he wasn't breed near enough in my oppinion and that was Davis' Black Luke he actually did this. I hope this helped.

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shawn stovall
wyandotte, ok
shawnstovall2001@yahoo.com
918-961-2434
Home to:
Pr S&J's Shack's Backwoods Patches (walker)
'PR' Stovall's Black Knight Wild Willy
Past Home to:
dual grand stovall's black knight george (gone but not forgotten)
pr D&S' black little luke (1st and 3rd place wins) (davis black luke x paynes black june) gone but not forgotten
Dual Grand Davis' black hutch (gone but not forgotten)

.

For thiis conversation i am going to asume your just not going to be happy with breeding a well bred hound to a well bred hound and getting one decent pup from the litter. Your goals and stadards are higher. You want the precentage of quality offspring to be high.

The first thing to do is put on paper your standards and goals for the litter.

One extremenly important thing to look at is the brothers and sisters of the dogs your breeding. The better the litter the sire and dam come from the better chance they will reproduce.

Second thing and so many fail here is to breed dogs that have faults they dont like but the breeder justifys it by saying they are breeding the faults out. We are not making soup here. You breed faults out by not breeding dogs with faults.
Remember this. If your dog has a fault and you breed that dog the fault will come back th haunt someone who gets one of the pups

Whats the measuring stick that will dtermine if your breeding quality pups?

The garmins came along and most people got to see just how much their dog runs other dogs along with running backwards I am here to tell you if your honest with yourself 50% of the dogs being hunted should be culled not a breeding being planned for them.

Happy New Year!

So Dave...it sounds like what you are trying to do is to create a "grade card" for stud dogs.

We all remember back to elementary school, we all got grades in the "basics"...reading, writing, arithmetic, Citizenship and the like.

I wonder what "subjects" that folks would want a stud dog "graded" on....

For me, it would be....

#1 Intelligence
#2 Nose
#3 Accuracy
#4 Balance
#5 Tree Style
#6 Reproduce ability - for me, this is the ability to reproduce your own likeness..
#7 Ability to handle different situation and different weather conditions.

I'm sure that I could think about it a while and come up with more, but I guess I'm trying to create a "yardstick" to measure and compare different studs.....

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Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

The first thing I'm going to look for is accuracy.
Nothing else matters if the coon ain't there !
From there , I like a FAST track dog. I want a dog running to catch. Not one just trailing along behind the coon till it trees.
Then , I want a tree dog. Not one that barks 150 / minute , but one that stays till I get there. Just a good steady chop suits me.

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Joe - you've got the idea! What I was wondering was what criteria is used to make the final decision. Once you decide to line-breed or out-cross, investigate the mommy, daddy, brother or sister; you come to look at a dog (whichever generation) and have to make some decisions based on what you see and hear. The question was, after all the other analysis and investigation (assuming there is some) what characteristics are meaningful to you?

Even if you don't hunt with the stud, it's mommy, daddy or children, I assume you've talked to someone about them. And when you did so, what questions did you ask???

In essence, I guess these same questions hold true for buying a dog...

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

If you really wanna find out what a stud is throwing breed a daughter back to him it will pull eny bad in there to the top real quick like if its in there but most of these studs I've said it befor and ill say it agien they ain't all that great you will get the same results maybe even better could be worse but I doubt it from breeding to a no name pr dog

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Been foolen with walkers since I was five be
foolen with them on the day I die.

Dave , we all the best in our hounds . But to me it's breeding 2 hounds that ain't fussy . I will not feed it or breed it .