UKC Forums - I find it amazing

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-15-2012 05:58 PM:

I find it amazing

I find it amazing that many of the coon hunters on this message board don't study the Raccoon (Procyon lotor)

I don't mean this as a negative towards anyone, but I look at deer hunters and they study deer habits, deer managment, deer reproduction...if a deer farts in the woods there are 12 deer hunters there to study the methane produced.....

We as coon hunters don't understand that first and foremost coon population is drive by denning sights. We as coon hunters don't understand the relationship between food source and hunter success rates. Sure, we know when the coon are eating white acorns, but what about the rest of the year?

We find it amazing that a block of timber that holds a health population of coon can suddenly appear to have never had a coon in it at all. Yet we don't think of the fact that the wet spot in the middle, that normally holds water is now DRY and has been for several months...what do you think the coon have been drinking all that time.

Am I really the only person that studies coon?

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Posted by smartin0022 on 11-15-2012 06:09 PM:

I let my dog worry about the coons and its habits. I just study what my hound is doing. But we got quite a few coons where I'm at not much of a shortage on ringtails so its just never been much of a thought for me. I can pretty much drive anywhere within fifty to hundred miles and tree a coon in a mile block.

Posted by chuck west on 11-15-2012 06:15 PM:

Crack another one outta here !

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-15-2012 06:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by smartin0022
I let my dog worry about the coons and its habits. I just study what my hound is doing. But we got quite a few coons where I'm at not much of a shortage on ringtails so its just never been much of a thought for me. I can pretty much drive anywhere within fifty to hundred miles and tree a coon in a mile block.

You hit the nail on the head. We (the hunters) don't have to think about it. The only time we have to be where a coon is, is when our dogs show us where the coon is at!

Now think about the fact that you can drive anywhere within 50 to 100 miles, what if you knew that in order to raise the coon population in your LOCAL area you could put up nest boxes in your local woods, or by planting wild cherry trees for late summer food sources to carry them over until the acorns come on?

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Joe Newlin
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Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by TBO kennels on 11-15-2012 07:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
in your LOCAL area you could put up nest boxes in your local woods, or by planting wild cherry trees for late summer food sources to carry them over until the acorns come on?

Yeah Im sure the farmers would love that.

Were lucky to have a patch or two to hunt thats not game preserve.

We dont have the luxury to try to find where there at. We just hope theyre there and are glad to have a place to turn loose.

Went to Jasper Pulaski saturday night after a UKC hunt in Lake Village. There were 16 coon hunters signed in. We made 18.

We still treed one though.

I wish the Game Preserves would plant the cherry trees and nest boxes but the only thing that makes money are deer and bird hunters....

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Posted by michael.magorian on 11-15-2012 07:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by smartin0022
I let my dog worry about the coons and its habits. I just study what my hound is doing.

I tend to agree. If you want to find coon, it is really pretty simple.

Corn+Creeks+Cottonwoods=plenty of Coon to study

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-15-2012 08:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by michael.magorian
I tend to agree. If you want to find coon, it is really pretty simple.

Corn+Creeks+Cottonwoods=plenty of Coon to study

And that is different than finding a stupid deer? Good lord I looked out my front window and saw them drinking out of the pond in the front yard..... have to stop on the road to keep from totaling my truck....

Doesn't mean I shouldn't pay attention to what they are doing in order to harvest one....

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Joe Newlin
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Posted by Scott Weddle on 11-15-2012 08:24 PM:

I AM KINDA IN THE SAME BOAT AS ALOT OF FOLKS JUST LET MY DOGS DO THE WORK BUT I HAVE ALWAYS TRIED TO PUT THEM IN PLACES WHERE I KNOW WE HAVE A BETTER CHANCE GETTING ON TO ONE THEN NOT. LIKE WHEN CHERRIES ARE IN I TRY TO HUNT WHERE I KNOW WHERE CHERRY TREES ARE AND WHEN DRY HUNT WHERE LOTS OF WATER ARE JUST STUFF OF THAT NATURE. THANKS SCOTT WEDDLE

Posted by Larry Atherton on 11-15-2012 08:35 PM:

Re: I find it amazing

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Am I really the only person that studies coon?

Joe,

I am hurt that you think your the only one.

Joe, do you know that a coon's intelligence level is on par with rhesus monkeys? Also, that coons migrate to and/from food sources? Or migrate to river bottoms in deep winter. Or the huge impact that round worms have on coons? Or how efficient coons are as predators?

I can't tell you how many hours as a kid that I watched several of the coons that I raised as they foraged down creeks. Do you think you how far a male coon will roam doing the rut? I know because as a teenager I would follow their tracks in the snow sometimes over 5 miles.

One of the most interesting thing I witnessed about coons is that they will actually dig holes in trees to create dens.

Have you scoured through Goggle Scholar looking for research studies of raccoons?

I have to find something to do when the snow gets too deep.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Posted by Chiggers on 11-15-2012 08:35 PM:

Re: I find it amazing

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
I find it amazing that many of the coon hunters on this message board don't study the Raccoon (Procyon lotor)

I don't mean this as a negative towards anyone, but I look at deer hunters and they study deer habits, deer managment, deer reproduction...if a deer farts in the woods there are 12 deer hunters there to study the methane produced.....

We as coon hunters don't understand that first and foremost coon population is drive by denning sights. We as coon hunters don't understand the relationship between food source and hunter success rates. Sure, we know when the coon are eating white acorns, but what about the rest of the year?

We find it amazing that a block of timber that holds a health population of coon can suddenly appear to have never had a coon in it at all. Yet we don't think of the fact that the wet spot in the middle, that normally holds water is now DRY and has been for several months...what do you think the coon have been drinking all that time.

Am I really the only person that studies coon?

You think denning sights are more important than food ? If so how far behind is food ?

__________________
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Posted by Bobby Reynolds on 11-15-2012 09:08 PM:

I just put the dogs where I think the coon are feeding. As long as you are where the coon are feeding, you should tree coon.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-15-2012 09:22 PM:

Re: Re: I find it amazing

quote:
Originally posted by Chiggers
You think denning sights are more important than food ? If so how far behind is food ?

Food supplies become important as the "carrying capacity" is reached. That is fancy speak for saying that there is usually enough out there to eat for more coon than there is room for them to live.

Coon will in fact migrate to chosen food sources. However, if there are no den sites, they can't live in that area. Coon will travel great distances to a food source, so the probability of the population outgrowing the available food source is low...however the probability of them "moving out of town" to find a place to live is high.

__________________
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UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-15-2012 09:27 PM:

Re: Re: I find it amazing

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Joe,

I am hurt that you think your the only one.

Joe, do you know that a coon's intelligence level is on par with rhesus monkeys? Also, that coons migrate to and/from food sources? Or migrate to river bottoms in deep winter. Or the huge impact that round worms have on coons? Or how efficient coons are as predators?

I can't tell you how many hours as a kid that I watched several of the coons that I raised as they foraged down creeks. Do you think you how far a male coon will roam doing the rut? I know because as a teenager I would follow their tracks in the snow sometimes over 5 miles.

One of the most interesting thing I witnessed about coons is that they will actually dig holes in trees to create dens.

Have you scoured through Goggle Scholar looking for research studies of raccoons?

I have to find something to do when the snow gets too deep.

Larry,

Sorry I forgot about you! Okay, I'm amazed that Larry and I are the only ones that......

To answer your question(s)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

I didn't know how far in miles, but I knew it was a "long way". I once watched a coon "hollow out" a tree that had a hole in it but the hollow was not big enough for it to turn around comfortably.....

Never heard of Google Scholar....but now I have something to do when the snow gets too deep.....

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Matt McKinney on 11-15-2012 09:30 PM:

I got permission to hunt a woods a while back that looked like a heck of a spot, corn on all sides, a little creek that ran through it, I thought man this is a great spot....Hunted it 3 times , never struck a track, on the 3rd night I got to looking around, no den trees, and I chalked that up to why those woods that looked so good on the outside, didnt hold any coons.

Posted by john Duemmer on 11-15-2012 10:37 PM:

Very true guys... dens are the secret. I was down near the north/south carolina border huntin with a friend a couple years ago and the coons were thin, the guy has feeders out but no coon. After a couple nights we realized the timber companys had cut down every hardwood tree big enough for a coon to climb and planted a damm pine tree. Ever find a coon den in a pine? Id bet if those guys put up some breeder boxes they would have coon again. They need dens, water, and a food sorce all in close proximity to raise young.

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Posted by headless01 on 11-15-2012 11:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Very true guys... dens are the secret. I was down near the north/south carolina border huntin with a friend a couple years ago and the coons were thin, the guy has feeders out but no coon. After a couple nights we realized the timber companys had cut down every hardwood tree big enough for a coon to climb and planted a damm pine tree. Ever find a coon den in a pine? Id bet if those guys put up some breeder boxes they would have coon again. They need dens, water, and a food sorce all in close proximity to raise young.

TIMES GOT TOUGH$$$$

ain't that the truth, no dens no coon. thats 1 of main reasons why eastern N.C. has about 10% of coon population it use to. they cut all the woods and then the highways get whats left. pitiful hunting, and yotes now and disease to boot.
coons fair bad all the way round.
boxes do help though.

Posted by joey on 11-16-2012 12:29 AM:

A coon will live in anything. Did you know that a coon will spend all summer in a rice field? They sleep on the levees. The ones I have seen would rather raise a littler in a dozer pile than a den tree. At least were I'm from. Did you know a coon can see green light better than any other light? They do not travel more than a 1 mile there entire life as long as the food is there they will find a place to sleep. No Joe you�re not the only one that has read everything they could find on coons.

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 11-16-2012 02:37 AM:

In the cities coons live in the sewers. They also cause millions of dollars of damage moving into houses, attics, and boxed-in eaves.

Ask me some day about the coon and the crack house.

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Aim small miss small

Posted by LIL-E on 11-16-2012 02:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
In the cities coons live in the sewers. They also cause millions of dollars of damage moving into houses, attics, and boxed-in eaves.

Ask me some day about the coon and the crack house.

funny stuff

Posted by croatankid on 11-16-2012 03:26 AM:

oak ridge, you're just the guy i've been looking for. someone that knows coons. i've got a question and hope you'll answer it for me. coons make dens in hollow trees. so den boxes are made more vertical and something like 12"x 12"x24". i think a coon family would be better served with a box 12deepx12hx24w. in other words, it would be better to lay the box on its side and put the entrance in the end. the box could then be mounted on a limb with the entrance near the trunk. otherwise, a vertical den should be more like 18x 18x 3 ft tall to give ample room and that's a lot of wood and quit heavy to pulling up a tree. your thoughts?

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Posted by Chiggers on 11-16-2012 04:36 AM:

In Eastern Ky there are bluffs and holes everywhere but not many coon.

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Posted by Ray Walburn on 11-16-2012 07:14 AM:

oakridge

I will agree with you on the study of coons .I look at as lookin at my spots for food water & cover .Not for the easy walking. And for the most part all things work out. The dog does the work,,but if you drop him in a dead zone you walk to the HOT ZONE JMO

Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-16-2012 12:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by croatankid
oak ridge, you're just the guy i've been looking for. someone that knows coons. i've got a question and hope you'll answer it for me. coons make dens in hollow trees. so den boxes are made more vertical and something like 12"x 12"x24". i think a coon family would be better served with a box 12deepx12hx24w. in other words, it would be better to lay the box on its side and put the entrance in the end. the box could then be mounted on a limb with the entrance near the trunk. otherwise, a vertical den should be more like 18x 18x 3 ft tall to give ample room and that's a lot of wood and quit heavy to pulling up a tree. your thoughts?

Gosh, I'm not claiming to be an expert in coon "housing"....but I can tell you this. I've seen tons of den trees in the vertical and semi-vertical positions. I've also seen them in the horizontal or "horizontal leaning" position, underground, in rock bluffs, in attics and crawl spaces of houses. I have seen them take over abandoned woodchuck and coyote dens. I've seen them nest in root balls of overturned trees, and underneath urban decks off the back of houses. I've treed more than one coon in wood duck nest boxes.

Having said that....I live in the land of milk and honey for hollow trees. We don't have paper mills here, so if a tree is hollow, they don't harvest it. So I don't have any experience with the size and orientation of coon nest boxes. I know that in the spring here, many of our coon nest on the ground in hollow logs, so the horizontal orientation would likely be used, if available.

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Posted by headless01 on 11-16-2012 01:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by croatankid
oak ridge, you're just the guy i've been looking for. someone that knows coons. i've got a question and hope you'll answer it for me. coons make dens in hollow trees. so den boxes are made more vertical and something like 12"x 12"x24". i think a coon family would be better served with a box 12deepx12hx24w. in other words, it would be better to lay the box on its side and put the entrance in the end. the box could then be mounted on a limb with the entrance near the trunk. otherwise, a vertical den should be more like 18x 18x 3 ft tall to give ample room and that's a lot of wood and quit heavy to pulling up a tree. your thoughts?

believe that style box would work too, 8 ft or more is sufficient, a coon will raise in it. they will also raise in duck boxes, even though they are small. i've been wanting to try 5 or 6 gallon buckets to see if they would raise in them if modified a little.

Posted by Slough on 11-16-2012 01:33 PM:

I have watched coons and other animals around me most of my life. Have thought of making den boxes but with all the hollow trees around me have not built any as of yet. Food is pretty available in the woods around home. Water has been our biggest problem for the last few years. Have really seen coon migrate towards new water sources.

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