UKC Forums - Nonhunting Judge Question

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Posted by CooperCreek on 09-22-2012 01:39 PM:

Nonhunting Judge Question

Just a question about a nonhunting judge situation. 4 dog cast. Dog A, a Nat. Gr NT Ch is treed by itself. The tree is more of a bush, not very tall and very shineable. A persimmon tree would have a better chance of hiding a coon. Other three handlers agree its empty and even handler of dog A jokes about it being slick. Handlers B and C ask judge multiple times at the tree how it will be scored. Judge does not answer, even when walking away from tree. Cast walks 10 minutes to recut. Handler of dog B refuses to cut until judge tells cast how tree was scored. Nonhunting judge tells cast dog A's tree was circled. Decision made a difference in the cast winner at the end of the night. Dog A wins, but would not have if tree was minused.

1. How do you question the decision of nonhunting judge after walking away from tree 10 minutes?
2. Can you question the fact the nonhunting judge would not tell cast his decison while still at Dog A's tree?

Posted by tracy payne on 09-22-2012 01:49 PM:

handler error

if those handlers would have requested a question mark be put on the card at the tree when judges refused to comment on how the tree was scored, it may have turned out different. It is a shame even at that level there is a lack of honesty and integrity. i know what cast your talking about. the dog that actually won the cast went home. iwould have filled out a complaint form.

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Posted by CooperCreek on 09-22-2012 01:55 PM:

Tracy, word gets around I guess. Just trying to figure out how to question a judges decision when judge wont even tell you the decision.

Posted by DAVY FREEMAN on 09-22-2012 01:59 PM:

ONLY KC THAT ALLOWS THAT TEAM TO PLAY.

Posted by JiM on 09-22-2012 02:35 PM:

Re: Nonhunting Judge Question

quote:
Originally posted by CooperCreek

1. How do you question the decision of nonhunting judge after walking away from tree 10 minutes?
2. Can you question the fact the nonhunting judge would not tell cast his decison while still at Dog A's tree?

1. The rule says you must question at the time that the situation occurs but I don't doubt for one second that UKC would support the right to question at the time that the judge announced his decision if that wasn't at the time the situation occurred. The problem here is that UKC would never have a shot at this one because questions at the World Hunt cannot go beyond the Field Rep in charge and it is anyones guess how they would rule.

2. Yes, I think so.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 09-22-2012 02:44 PM:

Jim i thought you could request to see the score card any time
you wanted.#10 they will show and inform handlers of score
and time recorded. so ??? when informed

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Posted by CooperCreek on 09-22-2012 04:12 PM:

How would MOH or UKC ever over rule a nonhunting judges decision to circle an an obviously slick tree? Would the opinion of the other three handlers count for anything? Or maybe we could have gotten the entire card thrown out since judge would not inform cast of his decision?

One way or another, I want to know how to not let this BS happen again. Fool me once, shame on me. But fool me twice....

Posted by GA DAWG on 09-22-2012 04:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CooperCreek
How would MOH or UKC ever over rule a nonhunting judges decision to circle an an obviously slick tree? Would the opinion of the other three handlers count for anything? Or maybe we could have gotten the entire card thrown out since judge would not inform cast of his decision?

One way or another, I want to know how to not let this BS happen again. Fool me once, shame on me. But fool me twice....

Id have never made a step from that tree till he told me. He cant make you walk off.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 09-22-2012 04:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CooperCreek
One way or another, I want to know how to not let this BS happen again. Fool me once, shame on me. But fool me twice....

Rules say that a non-hunting judge's decision must be questioned at the time that it is made. So, you ask for the decision and refuse to leave the tree until he tells you what his decision is. Then you question it if you do not agree with it. Now, it won't do you any good to vote on it since the cast can't overturn a non- hunting judge's decision. It will have to be overturned by the MOH. You can/should write the judge up/file a Formal Complaint for unsportsmanlike conduct if you think that he deliberately did this to benefit one of the handlers/dogs and UKC will have to rule on that.

Posted by tracy payne on 09-22-2012 04:28 PM:

handlers

handlers should have stayed at that tree and refused to leave until notified of how tree was scored and requested to question non call by non hunting judges. they have to tell you at the tree how the tree was scored. this is why people get furious at competition hunts. we may have a world champion that got defeated in the second round.

Posted by Maniac on 09-22-2012 04:29 PM:

sense its brought up wat cast was this??

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Posted by tracy payne on 09-22-2012 04:37 PM:

new world champion

feelin frisky, i wonder how many bushes got circled last night. this thing has already been paid for. no sense in tuning in tonight.

Posted by Tim Toler on 09-22-2012 04:39 PM:

and who was the judge?

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Posted by Maniac on 09-22-2012 04:51 PM:

Re: new world champion

quote:
Originally posted by tracy payne
feelin frisky, i wonder how many bushes got circled last night. this thing has already been paid for. no sense in tuning in tonight.

this doesnt surpise me one bitt

Posted by Derek Peterman on 09-22-2012 04:56 PM:

I think the rules got Stretched.

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Posted by bob country jr on 09-22-2012 05:29 PM:

Its everywhere that group goes as always if he was to win it would be VERY questionable.Has the possie showed up yet .Alan may need to judge this one and have security in the woods.

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Posted by down and out on 09-22-2012 05:41 PM:

Did any dogs mysteriously quit treeing?

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Posted by CooperCreek on 09-22-2012 05:45 PM:

I didnt start this post to name names. I started it because I want to know how to get a nonhunting judges decision overturned on scoring a tree. Dont have much experience with nonhunting judges or the policy for getting a tree scoring error overturned, or how and if it would even be considered. But I have never seen such a tree circled before, and it definitely should not have been.

Posted by Hunt2472000 on 09-22-2012 05:52 PM:

Well if this cheating really happened everyone should know who it is so they don't let it happen to them!

Posted by cody jaster on 09-22-2012 08:30 PM:

I know one thing for sure cause I've hunted with him on a nite champ cast years ago. He's not going to lay down for the one that stretched the truth at all. In fact he's got a really good dog and that's his backyard they are hunting in. I hope he wins it all!

Posted by Grant Noeske on 09-22-2012 09:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CooperCreek
I didnt start this post to name names.

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but "Dog A, a Nat. Gr NT Ch..." narrowed it down a little bit for me.

I'm just trying to figure out if you meant Miller's Little Joker or Spring Creek Rock.

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Posted by CooperCreek on 09-22-2012 09:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Grant Noeske
Well, I don't know about anyone else, but "Dog A, a Nat. Gr NT Ch..." narrowed it down a little bit for me.

I'm just trying to figure out if you meant Miller's Little Joker or Spring Creek Rock.

I just want to give the jealous, empty treein dog credit for the title that I'm sure she deserves. Just speaking on my one observation of course, I'd say she's tough in pop up coon.

But really, is there even a way in UKC to over rule a nonhunting judges decision to circle an obviously slick tree? The fact that three handlers said it was slick really wouldn't matter would it? You can't take a MOH or field rep back out to the tree in UKC can you? Or can you?

Posted by smokin-1-mo on 09-22-2012 09:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CooperCreek
I just want to give the jealous, empty treein dog credit for the title that I'm sure she deserves. Just speaking on my one observation of course, I'd say she's tough in pop up coon.

But really, is there even a way in UKC to over rule a nonhunting judges decision to circle an obviously slick tree?

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Posted by JiM on 09-22-2012 10:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Grant Noeske
Well, I don't know about anyone else, but "Dog A, a Nat. Gr NT Ch..." narrowed it down a little bit for me.

I'm just trying to figure out if you meant Miller's Little Joker or Spring Creek Rock.

Posted by CoonBusterWV on 09-22-2012 10:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Derek Peterman
I think the rules got Stretched.

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