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Biggame vs. coondog

Just don't get it . I've been huntin for 30 yrs bear for 15 n I c so many ads on here for bear , cat , coon dogs or even coyote n the same dogs. I don't look for the same traits in a coon dog as a biggame dog . It's a whole different world . My coon dogs were a whole different breed n they needed to b papered to hunt in the competition . I traveled to all the big hunts , had my own n got payed to handle. I've given that up. I have coyote dogs n they r runnin walkers , coyotes don't tree. My strain blue dogs r hunted on bear n cats which r # 1 trail dogs . Anyone Else see where comin from?

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TNT KENNELS
RAY Bred Blues

yea i think they are just puppy mills that want there ads to appeal to everyone in the hound world.big game hunting has become commercialized.heck you couldnt give me a pup to bear hunt if you told me the parents were coon hunted.it takes a totally different hound

If I am bear hunting that is what I want to do so, I will use bear dogs. I think some people just want to think there dogs are capable of cathing all types of game.

My dogs probably aren't near as good as most folks , but we've been running coon dogs on bear since 1972.
We only bear hunt 1 or 2 weeks a year , so we're not going to feed a dog all year to only hunt 1 or 2 weeks.
We tree bears every year.
But , they are good coon dogs. Not just dogs that will tree coon.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

I like to have dual purpose dogs. It is just hard for me to feed a dog you are only able to hunt 2 months out of the year. My start dog for bear is the exception. The pack dogs are run on coon in the fall OR coyotes in the winter. Coon in coyotes don't mix. My cat dog is run on coon in the fall, and I have 2 dogs that are year round coon dogs. Wish our season was longer to justify having strictly "BEAR DOGS" but it's not. So I do what I can to try to keep my dogs in shape and in the woods as much as possible.

Thats is one of the best things about WV, we can train year round and have split kill seasons for bear. One in Sept. that is 3 days long or a week depending on what County you are in. And the December season.

I understand the guys that don't want the dogs to set. Everyone isn't the same . I cold trailed a bear for 5 1/2 hrs yesterday n covered a lot of ground b4 he jumped. #1 I would never expect a coon bred dog 2 do that I look for a medium nose in a coonhound n most r medium/ hot. #2 is a hound that was run on coons or coyotes pry would have run across a bunch of those tracks along the way n pry treed a coon or been chasin a yote long b4 they jumped the bear. Years ago i had some hounds I ran on coon and bear n caught bear but I also treed coon while bear huntin n didn't catch near the bear as now. Bottom line is if u feed them do what u want. I posted this gettin at the ads I c on here n other sites that r sellin coon bred hounds as biggame hounds , I think theyre a world apart. Jmo.

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TNT KENNELS
RAY Bred Blues

I think people fail to realize that most hounds we run today were once either running dogs eventually bred to become tree dogs for all types of game or dogs that branched off from those dogs and bred for special purposes. Myself, I like a generalist, not a specialist, therefore I can hunt or sale my dogs or pups to hunters who lion hunt, cat hunt, bear hunt or coon hunt. I myself have caught bears, treed coons, and held cats with the same dog in alot of different conditions, settings and scenario's. I also have kinda stuck with linebreeding and cautiously outcrossing to achieve that goal to maintain the nose, speed, tracking ability, the make up of the hound, whats between the ears, the tough feet, etc etc. I disagree with puppy mills, but i dont disagree with raising good solid hounds for hard nosed dedicated hunters that hunt in all types of terrain and hunt different game.

__________________
Adam Evans
Brushy Ridge English Hounds
Light Foot English

304-257-6079

http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/teambrushyridge/
brushyridgehounds.webs.com

The way i see it if a dog has the hunt in him he will hunt any game. It all depends on what he was trained on and yeah i get some people try to breed certain traits into there dogs for the game they are runnin. We don't coon hunt anymore but when we did we coonhunted dogs and bear hunted dogs from the same litter. A man that lived down thye road from us always bear hunted and cat hunted the same dogs.

quote:

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Originally posted by TBBLUE
I cold trailed a bear for 5 1/2 hrs yesterday n covered a lot of ground b4 he jumped.

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Some dogs are just going prefer one critter, it's just what they love to do. Most dogs can/will run most types of critters once it's jumped. Now if they can do it well is the question.

The problem with multi purpose dogs comes when you are trying to cold trail old bad tracks. In these cases I've had my best luck keeping mostly bent dogs grinding the track until it's heated up. (I've never seen a completely straight dog in my life)

You can run cats/bear combo dogs ok, but most will do better on one/other. I'd do hand stands if my dogs came off a bear to jump/catch a cat. I have had terrible luck running coon/bear dogs unless they are just being packed. Our baits and swamps are littered with coon and I prefer to not have a dog take a liking to them. And I still have problems. Bear/yote, sure but just be ready for a yote race or two. cat/yote, not good unless you can get that cat jumped before you bump into a hot yote. yote/coon, not good. coon/cat, usually not a problem. Now there are exceptions but this is what I've seen.

As for do it all type pups hitting the ground, well it sounds good but I prefer to make my judgement when they actually make a dog. I know if I want a lock down trail dog I'm not looking at one winning night hunts unless I know that dog can grind a track. You don't win most hunts by cold trailing for 2 hours.

quote:

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Originally posted by chasinbear
yea i think they are just puppy mills that want there ads to appeal to everyone in the hound world.big game hunting has become commercialized.heck you couldnt give me a pup to bear hunt if you told me the parents were coon hunted.it takes a totally different hound

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Nolte u n I r on the same page as far as combo dogs , seen a lot of hounds tree coons off a bear race. Seen dogs run coyotes off of bear races. I wont tolerate it. But if ur alrite with it goin in so b it.But only seen 1 cat tree off a bear chase. As far as coon dogs makin bear dogs I guess it's wat u need . Some places have lots of bear where a good bred hound will shine n don't have to have much nose . N I guess some places need colder nosed hounds for coons. I'm talkin bout the dogs u would competition hunt on coons being used for bear . N the last 4 days I have bear hunted I have had 1 track per day so u better make it count n they've been bad tracks we've jumped all 4 n treed 2 n the other 2 got on private turf n had to catch hounds. Didn't post this for a pissin match, just for opinions.

Kyle ,
That's y I run this line of hounds I've seen more dogs that caliber than any other line. I like my percentages . N this is just wat I've seen in my hunting experiences in Michigan . Sure there's more like it other places. N may b some like it in mi. That I haven't seen.

__________________
TNT KENNELS
RAY Bred Blues

I get what you are sayin about colder nosed dogs there wasn't alot of bear in these parts years ago and it took a colder nosed dog if you wanted to find a track. I'm just sayin in my experience the dogs that i have been around hunted what game they were trained on and most came from coon stock dogs. I guess if you look back most registered dogs that have titled dogs in there pedigree are from coon stock down the line. I guess each hunter likes different traits in there dogs and looks for it and breeds for it in there pack. Its all what ya like

bcboy,

You are correct that most big game dogs came from coon dog lines. You could go one step further and say most coon dog lines came from fox dogs prior to that but were selectively bred for their treeing ability. Dad started hunting bear in the first years it was open in WI in the 70s or late 60s can't remember. You had to look long and hard for a bear. Then again it was the same for coon since everyone was hard up for money and they were worth something. It is a bit different now with bear all over and coon the same. He also told me that one of the best dog's he's seen was a dandy bear dog and a bang up coon dog, but that was the last one he's seen like that. The 70s were 40 years ago. Heck there is only a little influence on the dogs now from the ones catching game in the 90s. I still catch myself talking about my one dog who's been gone almost 10 years and he was 9 when he died. :-)

I think it's just easier to find a dog that suits your needs if you get it from something that's doing what you need it to do in your area. Now if that line of dogs can do others stuff well that's great. I think a guy would struggle if he wanted to catch bear in WI and bought dogs from a Texas coon dog line. While some of the traits cross over, a whole bunch more would not ever have to be evaluated in a coon dog in Texas. Just like they wouldn't want to pick up a bear dog pup from up here and go try to win night hunts down there. Now if a dog/line has shown that it can do it, well then give it a whirl. It's always a crapshoot when you're trying dogs anyway, but a guy can put his odds in his favor a little bit by getting ones that already get it done in his area.

Ive always started mine on coon when they were young, imo it gives them real life experiences, trailing knowledge, and just alot of experience at a young age. When a pup or two can go hunting with a experienced coon dog they can learn alot from that dog. They can settle down and learn to work a track, and during kill season they can get a little fur in there mouths even though I dont believe alot of fur is the answer to making a great dog by no means. So far ive never had the problem of treeing coons while bear hunting but it could happen at any time. Those same dogs I have retired in later years and coon hunted them with great results. I like a combo dog, it improves my breeding program as well.

__________________
Adam Evans
Brushy Ridge English Hounds
Light Foot English

304-257-6079

http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/teambrushyridge/
brushyridgehounds.webs.com

Adam,

I agree with your methods and in fact will do the same. Coon hunting is a good way to get a young dog in the mix and they can generally keep up. But once the dog is started big game hunting, I then keep them strictly on that and coon are treated as trash. Coon are used as the starter tool for me. I tended to have problems if they were coon hunted pretty hard. Seen some decently started bear dogs completely go coon crazy after they had a full coon kill season under their belt. They'd fall out of a race and go tree a coon. It was just what they preferred and love to run. We either kept them as strictly a coon dog or sold them to someone who wanted that.

Combo dogs can work out for a guy depending on if your chosen species cross over in the same terrain. In some areas it can be a major hassle. It all just depends on a guy's situation.

Do you guys hunt registered dogs or grade dogs??

The John Ray bred dogs that I hunt r 45 yrs of line bred grade dogs. As long as I no what I'm gettin or what I got papers mean nothing to me. The tight line breeding means more to me than the piece of paper. Most papers today are counterfeit in some way anyway. I dont coon hunt any more n these dogs arent bred for competition huntin.Thats the way I think , now if ur papers are rite then they are a good tool to keep track of everything lots of guys like a paper trail n that purple ribbon it's all what u want or need.

The problem is when a guy hunts his dog under another dogs papers n titles it. Or different sets of papers get put on pups when theyre born. Or so many titled dogs today are junk cuz the slick handler has cheated or as its said " bent the rules" to get those titles.It happens A LOT in the coon hunt world. So it puts lots of guys out there buyin n breeding hounds that aren't what they say they are( counterfeit ) . If ur papers are tried n true n u no so that's great n they're great. Jmo!

__________________
TNT KENNELS
RAY Bred Blues

I most always hunted grade dogs that we raised. I have bought a few registered dogs and like the papers to see what dogs they are out of. Its like i said different people prefer different lines of dogs and different traits in there dogs. People breed for speed, tracking ability, nose and so on. And most all the guys around here have hunted coonstock dogs on big game and have had success. The best dogs i have hunted with parents were coondogs. Its all what ya like but im not going to hunt a dog on bear because its not from bear stock. If they do what ya want and they make ya happy thats all that matters

We have a little of both grade and reg. Like what was said, if accurate it's just a tool to keep track of where dogs come from. I try to get stuff from the best I can find around regardless if it's papered or not.

I've had different experiences than others. Dogs I got from coon dog stock didn't cut it for big game. Not saying it can't/won' work, it just wasn't working for me. I just wasn't finding dogs that stayed caught good enough for my liking.

Thats right i'm sure alot of people would agree about using dogs who were primarily breed for certain game that wouldn't cut it on what game they were hunting. I'm just sayin in my experience that i can't say that if a dog was out of a certain stock of dogs they wouldn't hunt other game and be good at it. Everyone has differnt results for dogs and the different areas and number of game in there area has alot to do with it also. Dogs i bear hunt might not cut it in other parts of the U.S. just like other dogs wouldn't cut it here

Nolte, I totally agree with you as well. The area I hunt is coon poor so it usually dont cause any problems. I had one problem this year with one dog getting off on coon but she was a very independent coon dog when I got her as a young dog and had been used only to coon hunt. She was out of shape and got behind the race but since has made every bear.

__________________
Adam Evans
Brushy Ridge English Hounds
Light Foot English

304-257-6079

http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/teambrushyridge/
brushyridgehounds.webs.com

their might be some truth to what you are saying but we had a cur female many years ago that came from both coon parents and start bear by herself so we just went with it. i do agree that if i am to get a dog the parents will have to be coon dogs from someone i know hunts because there to many puppy mills just trying to sell pups even parents dont hunt.

can a big game hound improve

I'm a coon hunter. not a bear season where I hunt. but do ya'll think a bear hound can improve track driving ability of the average coon hound? I don't comp hunt just enjoy the hunt/race


Kenneth

I run blueticks if it matters

__________________
Kenneth Flippen

owner of:
one Ol Blue Dog