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-- Quick rules question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=508010)

Quick rules question

Three dog cast. Dogs A, b, c struck. Dog b trees by himself and dog C splits about 30 yards away and is called treed. Dog b eventually pulls to dog c. When b pulls, dog A is declared treed for 75 on the same tree as dog c. Dog b is declared treed on the same tree as the other dogs for 50. We proceed to the tree since all dogs are declared treed. Dog A is off the tree trailing up the creek. Only 3 minutes of the 5 minutes had passed at this time (it just so happened the judge was running time on his stopwatch and hadn't stopped it.) Dog A (te judge's dog) dog comes back to the tree while we are there and somehow gets treed back in for 25. A coon is seen.

My question is, when is a tree officially considered closed? I was under the impression that once all dogs are declared treed it is closed regardless of the number of dogs on the cast. The judge's stance was that since it was a three dog cast, the 4th tree position was still open after dog A left and since there was still 2 minutes of the original 5 left on the tree, dog A was eligable to be retreed in 4th.

I questioned the call but was outvoted 2-1 to let it stand and only minus dog A's tree points. Since we saw a coon, I thought dog A should be minused both ways. I put a question on the card and we talked it over with the MOH and he also backed the judge saying that there was still time left on the tree?

It's no big deal but I just wanted clarification for future instances. This situation was the deciding factor as to who the cast winner would be. As it turned out, the winner of the cast went on to win the Nite Champion cast at this hunt.

Thanks!

__________________
Pigg River Treeing Walkers
🍀☠️🍀☠️🍀

Simon Rucker
(540)-420-1787

GrNiteCh PKC CH 'PR' Candy's Stylish Swag 2014 VA State PKC top 10 and 2022/2023 Super Stakes Sire & 2022 UKC Performance Sire
CH NiteCh 'PR' Stylish Poison Neon Moon
CH NiteCh 'PR' Riverbottom Sally
NiteCh 'PR' Froggy Bottom Daisy

when all dogs are treed those trees are closed.... only way he could have retreed was on a different tree the way i understand it

. Separate time must be kept on each tree unless all dogs are declared treed,then tree is considered closed.

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John Haun

What you had here was a creative judge who was successful at b.s.ing his way into some plus tree points that he didn't deserve instead of minus strike which he DID deserve. No problem, you questioned it. Got outvoted. No problem again because that's why they have an MOH, to correct a crooked judge. Now here's where the problem comes in. Your MOH doesn't know the most basic , 3 grader level, rules. So you got a bad ruling. A Formal Complaint would have certainly fixed that but really, no way it should have even been necessary on such a simple rules question as this one.

Also, if this actually went down as described, then I don't believe for one second that judge just made an honest mistake. I would bet my last dollar that judge knew he was cheating. I don't know what to think about the MOH's decision.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
What you had here was a creative judge who was successful at b.s.ing his way into some plus tree points that he didn't deserve instead of minus strike which he DID deserve. No problem, you questioned it. Got outvoted. No problem again because that's why they have an MOH, to correct a crooked judge. Now here's where the problem comes in. Your MOH doesn't know the most basic , 3 grader level, rules. So you got a bad ruling. A Formal Complaint would have certainly fixed that but really, no way it should have even been necessary on such a simple rules question as this one.

Also, if this actually went down as described, then I don't believe for one second that judge just made an honest mistake. I would bet my last dollar that judge knew he was cheating. I don't know what to think about the MOH's decision.

---

__________________
Pigg River Treeing Walkers
🍀☠️🍀☠️🍀

Simon Rucker
(540)-420-1787

GrNiteCh PKC CH 'PR' Candy's Stylish Swag 2014 VA State PKC top 10 and 2022/2023 Super Stakes Sire & 2022 UKC Performance Sire
CH NiteCh 'PR' Stylish Poison Neon Moon
CH NiteCh 'PR' Riverbottom Sally
NiteCh 'PR' Froggy Bottom Daisy

All I will say to that is if everyone had your attitude, these hunts would be alot more enjoyable.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Dog A should have gotten -75 for leaving the tree to start off with, then another -125 tree for the split tree call since he was called treed on a closed tree and minused his strike points since he was found to be treed on a closed tree with coon seen.

A should have gotten a total minus of (200tree & ?strike).

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"Believe Nothing You Hear and Only Half of What You See."

If I had to guess,I would say this master of hounds is one who draws everyone out then scratches his head and asks everyone if they have judged before and thats how the judge was picked. This one might be worth a call to ukc so they can set the master of hounds straight anyway.

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your either making dust or your eating it
Travis Stirek
425-530-6649
http://stirekcanineservices.weebly.com