UKC Forums - scoring ? #2

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-- scoring ? #2 (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=502422)

Posted by runnin rebels on 05-11-2012 04:03 PM:

scoring ? #2

Dog A struck
Dog B struck
Dog A treed
5 min is up on A's tree and dog B is called treed

Dogs are on same tree

1 Coon is seen A 225+ B ???
2 tree is circled A 225 circ B ???
3 tree is minused A 225- B ???

What is B's score on 1, 2 and 3 ?

Thank you.

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Posted by jabrown on 05-11-2012 04:09 PM:

1: 75-
2: 75 circle
3: 150-

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Posted by runnin rebels on 05-11-2012 04:14 PM:

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Posted by Slough on 05-11-2012 04:15 PM:

Is dog B called treed after the 5 or is he at the tree when judge arrives?

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Posted by runnin rebels on 05-11-2012 04:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Slough
Is dog B called treed after the 5 or is he at the tree when judge arrives?

there I fixed the original, he was called treed after the 5

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Posted by jabrown on 05-11-2012 04:20 PM:

Wondered why you were sure I was wrong and then reread your question. Thought it was same scenario that you asked on other thread. My bad. Should be:
1: 200-
2: 125- tree. 75 circle strike
3: 275-

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Posted by runnin rebels on 05-11-2012 04:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jabrown
Wondered why you were sure I was wrong and then reread your question. Thought it was same scenario that you asked on the other thread. My bad. Should be:
1: 200-
2: 125- tree. 75 circle strike
3: 275-

that looks closer, but why so much - on #3?

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Posted by jabrown on 05-11-2012 04:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by runnin rebels
that looks closer, but why so much - on #3?

Because if he was treed after A's tree was closed, he goes on the card as split. If he's on A's tree when you get there, then you score accordingly. If A's tree is minus, you assign B next available on tree and minus track and tree on top of the 125- he got for "leaving" that split tree. Hope that makes sense.

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Posted by JiM on 05-11-2012 04:36 PM:

#3- B's score is 200-

I think jabrown is saying 75-strike, 125- for leaving split tree and covering dog A, and then another 75- for dog B under rule 4(g). However I don't think 4(g) applies here. 4(g) covers dogs "treeing BUT NOT DECLARED TREED when the judge arrives". In this instance, dog B was declared treed. Yes, it was on a split tree but declared treed none the less. I don't think 4(g) applies here.

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Posted by runnin rebels on 05-11-2012 04:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
#3- B's score is 200-

I think jabrown is saying 75-strike, 125- for leaving split tree and covering dog A, and then another 75- for dog B under rule 4(g). However I don't think 4(g) applies here. 4(g) covers dogs "treeing BUT NOT DECLARED TREED when the judge arrives". In this instance, dog B was declared treed. Yes, it was on a split tree but declared treed none the less. I don't think 4(g) applies here.

that's what I thought he shouldn't get a double minus on tree. only -200.

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Posted by blueticker on 05-11-2012 04:53 PM:

I know the reasoning on the minus trees for B. Now if B was for sure split and one could make judgement you would minus B for leaving a split tree and backing dog A. If B was at A's tree when the cast arrived B would be in line for anouther 75- on the tree. The catch here is when the handler declared B treed, it has to be a split tree. The other catch is determining if B actually moved. The dog has to move to receive the additional 75- on tree. Big handler error.

I have held off split treeing my dog knowing pretty well it was split. I know how those things go when the dogs treed first pulls to yours and it's not an absoulute. Had it happen to me a few times.

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Posted by jabrown on 05-11-2012 05:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
#3- B's score is 200-

I think jabrown is saying 75-strike, 125- for leaving split tree and covering dog A, and then another 75- for dog B under rule 4(g). However I don't think 4(g) applies here. 4(g) covers dogs "treeing BUT NOT DECLARED TREED when the judge arrives". In this instance, dog B was declared treed. Yes, it was on a split tree but declared treed none the less. I don't think 4(g) applies here.

Lets say A and B were split treed 400 yds apart. B leaves his tree and is on A's tree when cast arrives. Would you apply 4(g) then?

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Posted by Tony Dominguez on 05-11-2012 05:18 PM:

DOG A... 225+
DOG B... 200-

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 05-11-2012 05:56 PM:

Re: scoring ? #2

quote:
Originally posted by runnin rebels
Dog A struck
Dog B struck
Dog A treed
5 min is up on A's tree and dog B is called treed

Dogs are on same tree

1 Coon is seen A 225+ B ???
2 tree is circled A 225 circ B ???
3 tree is minused A 225- B ???

What is B's score on 1, 2 and 3 ?

Thank you.

#1 A 225+ B 200- #2 A225 C B 125- #3 A 225- B 125-

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Posted by JiM on 05-11-2012 06:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jabrown
Lets say A and B were split treed 400 yds apart. B leaves his tree and is on A's tree when cast arrives. Would you apply 4(g) then?

No, I wouldn't. Not in this situation.
I may be wrong but that is how I'd judge it.

Posted by truly on 05-11-2012 06:34 PM:

Brad, you gonna quit stirring the pot and put that final win on your dog this weekend? Walker Sect in Green Isle Saturday.

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Posted by WEBBER on 05-11-2012 08:09 PM:

Dog B gets the big whammy of -275- in scenario 3, no matter how lenient you want to judge it.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 05-11-2012 08:23 PM:

I dont know what UKC. would say but i think weather 4g could apply would depend on the way the situation unfolded. If B were split by 400 yards and took minus for leaving before the cast was near As tree and was at As tree when the cast arrived i dont see why he wouldnt be assigned next available on that tree because after being minused he was eligable to retree?
If on the other hand B hadnt been minused i dont think 4g would apply becaus he was on the card as treed.

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Posted by Tony Dominguez on 05-11-2012 08:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
I dont know what UKC. would say but i think weather 4g could apply would depend on the way the situation unfolded. If B were split by 400 yards and took minus for leaving before the cast was near As tree and was at As tree when the cast arrived i dont see why he wouldnt be assigned next available on that tree because after being minused he was eligable to retree?
If on the other hand B hadnt been minused i dont think 4g would apply becaus he was on the card as treed.

ITS ONLY ON OFF GAME OR SLICK TREE WILL A DOG GO IN FOR NEXT AVAILIBLE POSITION!!!!

Posted by nccoonhunter197 on 05-11-2012 08:44 PM:

The only reason dog B's tree is taken as a split is because the five is up. If B was declared split and it was an obvious split you would minus tree for B moving and if B was on A's tree before the judge arrived and it was slick or off game the judge would have to apply the rules accordingly. That means B would take 125- for leaving it's original tree, next available on the slick or off game tree 75-, and minus strike of 75. I think it only applies if you know for sure it is an obvious split.

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 05-11-2012 09:53 PM:

ya i agree, some just tree there dog not knowing the rules. then throw a fit when you have to minus them 125 tree points. then theres some that like to gamble and tree there dog and hopeing there split..

Posted by Rip on 05-11-2012 10:26 PM:

I think you have to follow the rules regardless and since when being treed after the 5 the dog was "officially" declared split then he would have to take the double medicine if found treed under the tree with the slick or off game and eat those assigned minus points too.

That's the way I read it.

UKC may not see it that way and I fully understand the logic, that dog was not "treeing but not declared treed", he was declared treed at another tree but I think if you are going to have the rule where someone that trees after the 5 is officially declaring a split tree then you have to score that dog just like he was infact split.

Ouch that would hurt.

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Posted by JiM on 05-11-2012 11:31 PM:

I agree with the "ouch, that would hurt".
I don't agree that a dog declared treed on a split can be minused under 4(g). I guess Allen needs to answer this one but since it is Friday eve and this thread will buried deep by Monday morning, we prolly won't get an answer.

Posted by Rip on 05-12-2012 04:21 PM:

I agree Jim this is a situation caused by a rule change that we used to didn't have.

I also agree that the only way we will know the correct answer on this one is for UKC to weigh in.

If they go by the rules as they are written in black and white then they would have no choice but to give the dog a double dose because you are by rule officially declaring him split after the 5 so it would have to be treated no different than if a dog was split 1/4 mile away and then came in and started treein on the possum before the judge got there.

If they go by the intent of the rule they can say that only in this situation would you determine that the dog had not actually left a split tree and was there all along and only get one dose.

I can see both sides of the argument and I can honestly see them going either way on this.

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Posted by LoggyBayouBlues on 05-12-2012 05:49 PM:

Rule 4(k)
Any dogs declared treed after five minutes expires and tree is closed; call will be accepted as a split tree. If dog is on closed tree when judge arrives, tree points will be minused. Strike points scored in accordance with 4(d)
(1) Dog B 200-
(2) Dog B 125- 75 circled
(3) Dog B 125-
Thank's I stand corrected

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