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help with pup

I got an eight month old pup that goes back to most of john Monroe's finley river stud dogs. He is 9 months old treed his first coon with my old dog at 8 months old I tied him back and knocked it out made sure it was dead and couldn't bite him. Now here is my problem. He is running a track and treeing decent but once he sees my light he gets down and leaves and don't want me to catch him. He is treeing pretty good while I'm walking to the tree and leaves when he sees my lite. Has anyone ever heard of this. I'm no pup trainer so I really don't know what to do. I don't want to kill a bunch of coon right now. Any suggestions on why he is doing this and how to stop it. I have never whipped on the dog much so he isn't scared of me.

Im wondering if it could be that he is associating me catching him with going back to the house. Almost like his fun is over

Would he come back in if you just shot in the air?

Walk in with your light out? Sneak in on him and get him caught and tied to the tree...pet him up and praise him and let him know he done good...if the coon is there obviously....

Pups lack expirience and confidence....i dont know if i ever worked with a pup that was a lock down tree dog off the bat...gotta help them and work with them...when i am hunting a youngun i am running right behind it...when it hits a tree i am already there or close enough to shine the dog and the tree..i try to get the tree shined and coon found so if it is there i can "talk the dog into staying" and let him know he did good so he dont try to keep moving...they are usually slower on track and i can often find the coon before they tree it..so i get near the tree and wait for the dog to work the track...i wanna be right there to work on getting them to stay and getting their confidence built up...pet em..praise em...squal..fire the dog up...it'll learn that treeing coon is fun...

Maybe the pups ive worked are dumb idiots...but theyve all been like that...the last 2 were granded out....the current 2 are a year old and could win registered casts...cant expect them to run and tree and lock down and do an awesome without them learning...alot of it is instinct...but that expirience and confidence comes with time...doesnt usually take long and they start locking down and staying treed..just takes time and experience and workin with them...the mores tracks and trees they make the more they learn...

__________________
Team Trackman!!

'PR' Trackman's Dizzy Duke

I'm not sure if he would or wouldn't

quote:

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Originally posted by l.lyle
Would he come back in if you just shot in the air?

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Did he start doing it right after shooting that coon out?
I don't mean gradually , I mean RIGHT after?

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Pretty much..he hasn't treed as good since that nite. He treed and was still treeing when I got there tied him back shot coon out dead he got fired up and I turned him on the coon and he chewed on it and shook it like an old hound. No problems at all so I'm stumped.

quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
Did he start doing it right after shooting that coon out?
I don't mean gradually , I mean RIGHT after?

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Oh and he will track and tree and stay on a turn loose coon

Yeah I raised him from a pup. Never beat on him and he never runs from me except in hunting situations I can turn him loose in the yard and he comes right to me

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Johnson
I'm curious if you raised him from a pup or just got him.
Some folks have a pup that barks in the pen at night, they shine the light on the them and tell them to shut up, or shoot their way with a bb gun, or spray with the water hose.
Then wonder why the pup shuts up at the tree at night when they see the light.
Been there, done that years ago. Took a while, but he got over it.

To be successful, find the problem first, then figure a way to fix it.
Could be all kinds of reasons that he's leaving.
Gun shy, hates to fight a coon, afraid of you, doesn't want to stop hunting, scared of the light, ect.
I would suggest some daytime leash work first, then off leash work with e-collar and the come command. That won't solve the problem, but it will make it easier to deal with at night.

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how many caged coons has he seen???? you say he runs and trees a caged coon fine....i betcha he is treeing by site not scent and doesnt have the confidence at nite....just my guess

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Team Trackman!!

'PR' Trackman's Dizzy Duke

Seen one in cage the other 2 I turned loose and didnt let him see them

quote:

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Originally posted by mauser06
how many caged coons has he seen???? you say he runs and trees a caged coon fine....i betcha he is treeing by site not scent and doesnt have the confidence at nite....just my guess

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Sounds like you may have a pup that is "too smart" ! LOL
He wants the coon , but he don't want you to catch him till after he gets it. LOL

How far does he go when he quits?
Does he stay close and mill around just out of reach kinda? Or does he take right off?

Sorry , but I'll be pestering you for DETAILS to try and help figure it out. Sometimes , it's that one little detail that will make or brake you.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Sometimes he will mill around just out of reach other times he will go back in the woods and run another track


QUOTE]Originally posted by jackbob42
Sounds like you may have a pup that is "too smart" ! LOL
He wants the coon , but he don't want you to catch him till after he gets it. LOL

How far does he go when he quits?
Does he stay close and mill around just out of reach kinda? Or does he take right off?

Sorry , but I'll be pestering you for DETAILS to try and help figure it out. Sometimes , it's that one little detail that will make or brake you. [/QUOTE]

After shooting that coon out , did you go home or continue hunting?
If you kept hunting , did you tree any more coons?

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Id just keep hunting him and trying to catch him and make him stay treed....he gotta learn that is what he is supposed to do...

__________________
Team Trackman!!

'PR' Trackman's Dizzy Duke

Put him away hot LOL

quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
After shooting that coon out , did you go home or continue hunting?
If you kept hunting , did you tree any more coons?

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I'm guessing he must figure you're gonna take him home when he trees now. LOL
You might try shooting out a couple more (while he's out fooling around) and see if that don't make him want to come in and start "being there" when you get there.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

I like the way the dog is doing for 8months. It's the one's staying hooked at 8 months I worry about as far as being decent down the road. I hunted FR and House most of my life and till the 90's not treeing right till 15-18 months old was common. They would tree a little and you better be there or they would find another to run. I like a pup to learn how to run right before they tree but I know I am a minority on here. Lets just say I have also fooled with enough that thought tree and not care much about getting it to the right tree.
If you get close to the tree and shoot; if he comes in it probably means he knows what's going on. If not, he probably needs more coons. 8 months is NOT to baby to worry about him getting bit with that line of dogs. Do Not encourage him to tree one bark til you see eyeballs.

Re: help with pup

quote:

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Originally posted by Matt McKinney
I got an eight month old pup that goes back to most of john Monroe's finley river stud dogs. He is 9 months old treed his first coon with my old dog at 8 months old I tied him back and knocked it out made sure it was dead and couldn't bite him. Now here is my problem. He is running a track and treeing decent but once he sees my light he gets down and leaves and don't want me to catch him. He is treeing pretty good while I'm walking to the tree and leaves when he sees my lite. Has anyone ever heard of this. I'm no pup trainer so I really don't know what to do. I don't want to kill a bunch of coon right now. Any suggestions on why he is doing this and how to stop it. I have never whipped on the dog much so he isn't scared of me.

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__________________
Robert G.Jones

Re: Re: help with pup

Matt ,
Sorry I didn't get a chance to call you. This sums up my opinion pretty close.
I wouldn't be afraid to try shooting a coon out while he's running loose though. It all depends on how the dog reacts to it. If the first one don't improve things , don't do it again.
It it helps , keep doing it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Plott55
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You are getting a lot of advise when you've only got one minor problem!!!!!

Your pup ran and treed at 8 mounths!! That is very great; But; what did you do====Instead of petting, talking, bragging over him and shooting the coon out!!!! YOU put a chain on him, led him off, tied him to a tree and then shoot the Coon out. Now he leaves the tree when you get there!!! SO he trees until he hears you coming then leaves!!!!HE'S not scared of you===he just don't like your style of hunting; He thinks that if he stays you will tie him to a tree.

I know quite a few ways to help this but it mostly depends on the type dog!!!

For just one===If he is not shy of strangers; let someone else go to the tree; they can talk and pet and have both hands on him when you walk up. If he wants to shy off , they can hold him; after you pet him, let the friend hold him and you shoot the coon out and let the pup see you do it. After a few times like this, he will change and begin trusting you when you come to the tree and whatever happens DON'T tie him at the tree again; at least until after he gets grown.

To sum it up Just think back===the first night he treed and you went to him. I just bet he was glad to see you; then you tied him away from the tree and shot the Coon out to the other dogs and he hasn't wanted anything to do with you at the tree since. You thought you were doing him a favor that night but instead created a dent in his opinon of you that is going to be hard to smooth out. It will take a lot of TLC to win his trust again

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

lyle brought up a good point....and i feel the same way....you can work with a pup on staying hooked...but you cannot teach a dog to tree and you cannot really teach them to run a track...

they gotta have the treeing instinct and they gotta learn to take a track and move it....and with time they will learn to end it..at a tree.....my buddy is MUCH less patient than i am...his pup been started a few months earlier than i started mine...my dog is by far a better track dog...his can take a hot track and do fine...but give him a colder track or a long track and he bogs down...my buddy didnt let him finish tracks...if he bogs down and gets stuck he will gather up the dog and move....ive sat an hour on the same stump waiting for my dog to get it straight....most times he did indeed end up treed under a coon....those tracks and trees IMO are some of the most important he will make...he learned more from those bad tracks than he does from a pop up coon and smokin track...


lots of good info given here....and another good point...you dog isnt a year old....work with it..take it hunting...have patience...it'll come together...think it is in one of Wick's books...something about the first few dogs you train you may make mistakes and even ruin the dog...you gotta learn to work with dogs and train them...

i try to "think like a dog" working with dogs comes natural to me...i aint no pro dog trainer...but most people give up too easy IMO...weather we are talking basic commands and obedience or hunting...gotta put in the time and effort....my pup just turned a year old...VERY accurate dog....is starting to lock down good but still no broke dog...starting to range out but usually gotta walk a few feet in the direction you want him to hunt and so far if he doesnt hit a track he checks in within 15-20 mins...thats all FINE with me...he will get the rest with time...but my point is, i got a TON of time already invested into him...since i started him in mid jan he has been to the woods every nite that the weather has been pup hunting friendly...i really wanted to keep stats on everything but got lazy immediately...just thought it would been interesting to look back and see "man i hunted 267 nites that year..seen 484 trees and 400 coon with Duke" or whatever the case may be..


good luck with the youngun! keep workin with him...he is young...no reason to be worried or frustrated yet...

__________________
Team Trackman!!

'PR' Trackman's Dizzy Duke

i dont know for sure but it seems to me that the dog is thinking the fun is over when ole matt shows up so iam going to stay out of reach of that party pooper lol. if he was mine i would walk in with my light off, ive done that with dogs that treed bobcat and knew better, then after i caught him i would make him think he just walked on water by petting him up. i would also bond with him as best i can , become hes best friend try to make him like you better than hisself and i think he will be more willing to please you on down the road. after you get to the first tree i would shoot the coon if your able and pet him then i would send him again, let him think when matt shows up the party is just getting started lol. i never have put a lead on a dog treeing unless in a competion hunt or worried bout him leaveing. i dont understand tieing a dog up to a tree with no coon in it, if a dog is clued to the coon tree dont mess with his mind by chaining him to a empty tree. i could be wrong bout all of this, so do what ya want to lol.