UKC Forums - Judging ?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 04-09-2012 10:13 PM:

Judging ?

What would you do?
3 dog cast, all dogs are struck A and B are treed deep, tree is closed and it is still about a 10 minute walk to the tree. C is now heard treeing in the location of the closed tree.

Whats the judges responsibility as far as the stationary goes and whats the handlers responsability calling his dog treed. It was said in another thread that it would be unsportsman like for the judge to apply the stationary in this situation.

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 04-09-2012 10:22 PM:

if your not absolutley certain the dog is split, then you cant put the stationary on a tree that has two dogs already called treed on. and you can't expect a handler to tree his dog on a closed tree.

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Posted by StrawberryMt on 04-09-2012 10:44 PM:

I was thinking Allen said somewhere the stationary not be placed on any dog while a dog needs to be scored meaning until after the treed dogs are scored.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 04-09-2012 11:04 PM:

Re: Judging ?

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
What would you do?
3 dog cast, all dogs are struck A and B are treed deep, tree is closed and it is still about a 10 minute walk to the tree. C is now heard treeing in the location of the closed tree.

Whats the judges responsibility as far as the stationary goes and whats the handlers responsability calling his dog treed. It was said in another thread that it would be unsportsman like for the judge to apply the stationary in this situation.

10 min walk is deep?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 04-09-2012 11:11 PM:

Re: Re: Judging ?

quote:
Originally posted by Lee Currens Jr.
10 min walk is deep?

Well if you been walkin while the 5 was runnin on the tree thats a 15 minute walk total. Thats about a mile. YEAH a mile is deep around here.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-09-2012 11:42 PM:

I was in a hunt with some guys like yawl this past weak end. I don't like you. A 15 minute walk is about a 1/4 mile in my world.LOL
I like to sonder more than a real walk.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 04-09-2012 11:53 PM:

I hear ya Grady, i can still truck right along but i sure break a sweat quicker than i used too.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-09-2012 11:59 PM:

Hurts more and longer than it use to too. I am still trying to get over Saturday night. LOL

Posted by Dan Dogs on 04-10-2012 12:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
Hurts more and longer than it use to too. I am still trying to get over Saturday night. LOL

hell, im still trying to get over a hunt from a week ago, we walked at least 5 miles. and 1 mile thru muddy chisel plowed fields. i think my heel spurs came back..

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-10-2012 12:08 AM:

I been tempted a couple times to bring up that senior cast thing at the clubhouse but my pride wont have it.LOL.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-10-2012 12:22 AM:

I have one more year before I can but I think my hip and back will tell my pride to shut the heck up. ( :

Posted by patches9452 on 04-10-2012 01:33 AM:

if im judgeing im not running the stationary on a dog while another dog is holding tree even if i can tell they are split.... i got to walk to that other tree to score it and i might not could hear it if it shut up for 2 minutes while i was walking...

Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-10-2012 03:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
if im judgeing im not running the stationary on a dog while another dog is holding tree even if i can tell they are split.... i got to walk to that other tree to score it and i might not could hear it if it shut up for 2 minutes while i was walking...

Well there you have it. If the club that allows you to judge reads this they will be as wrong to let you judge as you are for not going by the rules. If you have to walk out of hearing and you have to walk back in the dog just got extra time to shut up and move. If he is still there when you walk back to were you last heard him give the handler a choice to tree him right now or for ever hold his piece. lol

Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-10-2012 04:01 AM:

I think judges that openly say on here that they won't go by the rules should be band from judgeing. I might not agree with some of them but I will allways try to go by them.

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-10-2012 04:09 AM:

What im lookin for is UKCs position on applying the stationary to a dog that most lkely is on a closed tree.

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Posted by l.lyle on 04-10-2012 04:22 AM:

I sure don't know. I'm walking in to my pleasure dogs.Both are steady 110 bark a minute dogs. I get within 2-300 yards and have to go through a 100 foot wide myrtle patch that realy isn't that thick. I get though it and the dogs have not missed a lick, but I swear it sounds like they are 10 degrees right or left of where I think they ought to be. LOL. Sometimes I go in all the way thinking they are split. Get all the way but a couple dozen steps before I realize it's the same tree. I get around fine but my ears might need to be on the Seniors hunt.

Posted by on 04-10-2012 04:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
What im lookin for is UKCs position on applying the stationary to a dog that most lkely is on a closed tree.

No John. if you cant tell the dog is split then you cant put a stationary on it.

Posted by mauser06 on 04-10-2012 06:25 AM:

where are you guys finding this "you cant put the stationary on" in this situation???

not saying y'all are right or wrong...i'd like to read it...will find the advisor sometime and look and read the rules again...

rule 6(q) says "If handler fails to declare treed a dog obviously treeing
(Judge’s decision) for a period of five minutes. Dog
may be declared treed while five is running but not after
the five has expired. Judge must verify dog to be at a
tree before it can be scratched."

to me, that means if you have a dog obviously treeing or barking stationary, it must be called treed..if it is not and it is found to be treeing, your scratched. it does not say anything about being on a closed tree...if it obviously comes into a closed tree and is plainly heard there and not called treed i would say you got 5 mins to tree it or your scratched...and if i am judging we will wait an additional 5 before going into that tree...

yes you will be penalized for treeing a dog on a closed tree...but rightfully so IMO...your dog was atleast 5 minutes slower than the fastest...

that is my take on it...dont know if it is right or wrong...but that is how i read it...either call it treed and take the minus or get scratched by the stationary....

most times you are lucky and 3 dogs are on the tree and you might could get away with "not hearing" your dog in there..sometimes you really cant...ive had it happen to me with a weaker mouthed dog drowned out..if i'd had bionic ears i could called em treed within the 5...but instead it was at a tree and not called treed..my fault..but i wasnt purposely trying to beat the stationary scratch...

if a dog comes into a dog that is treed alone after the 5 it will be evident and if i am judging the stationary is going on and a tree call will be made or that dog will be scratched...thats how i read it...

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Posted by JiM on 04-10-2012 06:32 AM:

Page 70 of the Advisor states the 5 is broke any time another dog is declared treed. That tells me you DO NOT start the 5 anytime a dog is declared treed.

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Posted by l.lyle on 04-10-2012 06:48 AM:

Score it fellows. This is the first time pup ever treed with mom. It was doubtful to my ears as you can tell . But see if you can figure a way to minus both of them. Coon found two trees over and killed dead as a wedge.

Posted by mauser06 on 04-10-2012 06:58 AM:

not sure i understand the reasoning on that...

but i also do not agree with any dog in the cast breaking the 8...or the 2 even...i think it would be fair if 1 dog opens and is struck in and then gets quiet and the 8 is started THAT dog must bark and plainly be heard to break the 8...same with the 2...if my dog is declared treed and gets quiet and the 2 is started your dog coming into that tree should not break my dogs 2...he must break it on his own...i understand it could get tricky to call and might be tough to run times..but typically it is being applied to ALL the dogs anyways...very rare situations have i seen it go as my examples...but, i'd like it better if the dog was held responsible for its own actions...

like i said, i think that if the dog is 5+ minutes slower than the fastest dog, it deserves penalized...those rules hurt my head...i'd have to weigh the pros and cons of it..i know it goes into coon, slicks, circles and off game...

...but i think that dog should have to be called if it is plainly heard to be treeing...i am just failing to see why a dog should "get away with it"

not trying to be difficult...i just dont understand the reasoning...

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Posted by StrawberryMt on 04-10-2012 09:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Page 70 of the Advisor states the 5 is broke any time another dog is declared treed. That tells me you DO NOT start the 5 anytime a dog is declared treed.

I knew I saw it somewhere.

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Posted by Allen / UKC on 04-10-2012 03:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
What im lookin for is UKCs position on applying the stationary to a dog that most lkely is on a closed tree.

6(q) is not be applied in that case.

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