UKC Forums - recast or not ?

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-- recast or not ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=489920)

Posted by osagebl on 03-12-2012 01:09 PM:

recast or not ?

how does the recast read?

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 03-12-2012 01:10 PM:

Re: recast or not ?

quote:
Originally posted by osagebl
how does the recast read?

If there are dogs out running you must re cast. If 1 dog is treed and 2 are running you have the option to either re cast or keep your dog on the leash.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 03-12-2012 01:32 PM:

dogs do not have to be running, they merely need to be competing.

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Posted by Tully on 03-12-2012 01:49 PM:

Recast

After five minutes, first dog’s tree may be
checked and that dog kept on leash until tree is
scored, then he must be turned loose with other dogs
that are opening on trail and will receive 25 points credit or discredit as deserved, or next available position.
However, if dog(s) are already treed, handlers have the
option to release dog(s) so long as at least one dog is
still out trailing.

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 03-12-2012 01:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
dogs do not have to be running, they merely need to be competing.

I didn't say they had to be struck. I said running.

Posted by Jerk Strap on 03-12-2012 02:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I didn't say they had to be struck. I said running.

What's the difference?

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 03-12-2012 02:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jerk Strap
What's the difference?

Nothing really. Any dog not on the lead is to be considered struck in.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 03-12-2012 02:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jerk Strap
What's the difference?

Even if a dog is not struck in, he/she is competing for position. Thus, if no other dogs are treed, and one dog in the cast is competing, you have to cut.

Posted by K. Singletary on 03-12-2012 03:57 PM:

Re: Recast

quote:
Originally posted by Tully
After five minutes, first dog’s tree may be
checked and that dog kept on leash until tree is
scored, then he must be turned loose with other dogs
that are opening on trail and will receive 25 points credit or discredit as deserved, or next available position.
However, if dog(s) are already treed, handlers have the
option to release dog(s) so long as at least one dog is
still out trailing.

I sure hope they change the wording of this. Already had people argue that trailing means opening on a track. The word trailing is very confusing to people who haven't seen the official interpetation.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 03-12-2012 04:20 PM:

It says must be releasted IF DOGS ARE OPENING ON TRAIL. What if there not opening?

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Posted by Rip on 03-12-2012 05:46 PM:

Re: Re: Recast

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
I sure hope they change the wording of this. Already had people argue that trailing means opening on a track. The word trailing is very confusing to people who haven't seen the official interpetation.

That's because the official interpretation is not consistant with the english language and previous rule interpretations.

This is one where you can not read the rule. You have to read the rule interpretation because if you go by what is actually written you will be wrong.

UKC is usually pretty good about going by what is written, but in this case they did not.

Only two cases I can think of like this are this rule and the fact that a ntch can be saved on off game by coming in after the judge arrives.

You can't go by either of those rules as they are written, you have to go by the interpretation.

IMO if they want something to be exactly opposite of what they wrote they should change the wording of the actual rule to reflect that. I think they didn't want to use the words "competing for strike" to keep from being labled as copying the other KC.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 03-12-2012 10:36 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Recast

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
That's because the official interpretation is not consistant with the english language and previous rule interpretations.

This is one where you can not read the rule. You have to read the rule interpretation because if you go by what is actually written you will be wrong.

UKC is usually pretty good about going by what is written, but in this case they did not.

Only two cases I can think of like this are this rule and the fact that a ntch can be saved on off game by coming in after the judge arrives.

You can't go by either of those rules as they are written, you have to go by the interpretation.

IMO if they want something to be exactly opposite of what they wrote they should change the wording of the actual rule to reflect that. I think they didn't want to use the words "competing for strike" to keep from being labled as copying the other KC.

i dont understand if we have played with the same rules for 50+ yrs
why do we have to change them?should we make the rules fit the
dogs or breed the dogs to fit.

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Posted by kayapellijed390 on 03-13-2012 12:24 AM:

I ran into a problem with this at the zones last year two dogs got treed in the opposite direction of my dog and the judges dog. While walking to the their tree we walked out of hearing of our dogs. When we scored the tree the jidge told those boys that they had the option to recast and immediately they did. This was the wrong procedure and I questioned it. You have to walk to the last place we heard our dogs and then put the eight on them. If you cannot hear other dogs you can not recast. You have to recast into dogs that are opening. The master of hounds did not agree with me. However on Monday Todd Kellam did. If dogs are not opening you do not have the option to recast. And at least one dog must either be trailing or at large. If one is treed and one is not opening or struck in you still can recast if you want since you can hear the dog that is treeing, so long as there is still one dog trailing or at large.

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Posted by osagebl on 03-13-2012 03:09 AM:

btt

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 03-13-2012 03:40 AM:

Yep they need to take "that are opening on trail" out of there.
A lot of the time the dogs at large might be out of hearing or just not opening.
I don't think a person should have to wait to hear another dog but when you walked out of hearing of the rest of the dogs you should have to go back were you last heard them.
If not those get deep in a straight line dogs would win every time. Just keep casting them in the same direction and you would never see or hear the rest of the dogs till after the hunt. Of course you would have a heck of a walk back to the truck and wouldn't make dead line unless you hunt in thick coon. LOL

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