UKC Forums - Dogs fighting at tree/Handled before the 5 is up.

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Posted by WillieBT on 03-05-2012 06:23 PM:

Dogs fighting at tree/Handled before the 5 is up.

I was on cast Friday night. Originally a 4 dog cast, but 1 withdrew. 3 dogs are cut loose. All dogs strike quick & 2 tree about 100-200 yds right up a field edge. The 2 dogs treeing start fighting but stop quickly. Cast closed the distance & they start fight again. The 2 dog owners rush in to handle the dogs before the 5 is up. The agressor of the fight was not determined.
How should this tree be scored?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 03-05-2012 06:27 PM:

No need to score it, both dogs are scratched for fighting.

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 03-05-2012 06:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
No need to score it, both dogs are scratched for fighting.

Or scratched for handling their dogs before the tree was dead. Whatever you prefer

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Posted by goodtimekennel on 03-05-2012 06:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Or scratched for handling their dogs before the tree was dead. Whatever you prefer

X2
YOU CANT HANDLE YOUR DOG BEFOR THE 5 MIN IS UP UNLESS ALL DOGS ARE DECLARED TREED ,

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Posted by Bob Hennessey on 03-05-2012 06:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Or scratched for handling their dogs before the tree was dead. Whatever you prefer

If you don't scratch them for fighting you are just pushing the problem down the road. They were fighting and that's what they should be scratched for.

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Posted by joe3772 on 03-05-2012 06:52 PM:

Another question ? Was on a cast Saturday night where dogs begin to fight and the only one who seen the dog fight was the judge, as the other cast members were coming up a bluff bank. How many cast members must see the fight for the aggressor to be scratched?

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 03-05-2012 06:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joe3772
Another question ? Was on a cast Saturday night where dogs begin to fight and the only one who seen the dog fight was the judge, as the other cast members were coming up a bluff bank. How many cast members must see the fight for the aggressor to be scratched?

I would never go by the judges say on this issue. Way to easy of a way for him to get rid of his competition. Also another great reason to stay together as a cast if at all possible.

Posted by john Duemmer on 03-05-2012 06:55 PM:

Judges decision should be enough, the guy who is scratched could ask for a vote but he wont win.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 03-05-2012 07:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joe3772
Another question ? Was on a cast Saturday night where dogs begin to fight and the only one who seen the dog fight was the judge, as the other cast members were coming up a bluff bank. How many cast members must see the fight for the aggressor to be scratched?

Just the judge. I don't beleive you have to vote on anything but scoreing a tree.
I agree on the scratching for fighting. For one thing they were fighting before they were handled. There for they were scratched before they were handled (weather it had been said or not).
Shouldn't send a mean dog out with out being reported. Just asking to have to hunt with it again.

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Posted by JiM on 03-05-2012 07:42 PM:

joe, your question assumes you must see a fight to know it happened. We all know you don't. If the judge sees the fight and scratches the dog, the only way it can be overturned is if the cast majority convinces the MOH there was no fight. Bottom line......you gonna own up to what happened or lie to the MOH?

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Posted by Laura Bell on 03-05-2012 08:04 PM:

Those two dogs are scratched for fighting and written up.

I'd like to put a twist on your question if you don't mind -

4 Dog cast.
Four dogs strike, Three dogs tree.
The five is running and the cast hears a fight and rushes into the tree.
Two dogs are balled up fighting, the third is still treeing.

The two fighters are scratched. The 5-minutes is still running.
Do you stay there or back off a few yards and let the lone dog tree until the 5-minutes is up and to see if the fourth dog will cover the tree? Or what exactly? EDIT: What if the handler of the treed dog handled the dog?

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Posted by JiM on 03-05-2012 08:12 PM:

Yes, you back out and continue to run the 5. There is no exception to the 5 minute rule that I know of unless all dogs are treed and you indicate a 4th dog is still trailing. You can't handle a dog at the tree before the 5 is up. If you do that is a scratch. Atleast that is how I understand it. I have been wrong before.

Posted by goodtimekennel on 03-05-2012 08:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Yes, you back out and continue to run the 5. There is no exception to the 5 minute rule that I know of unless all dogs are treed and you indicate a 4th dog is still trailing. You can't handle a dog at the tree before the 5 is up. If you do that is a scratch. Atleast that is how I understand it. I have been wrong before.

CORRECT HANDLE FIGHTING DOGS AND BACK AWAY AND WAIT FOR THE 5 MIN

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Posted by thebigcat454545 on 03-05-2012 09:11 PM:

dont you have to find the aggressor before u can scratch? also if you run into a tree before 5 is up it should be minus, not scratch correct?? prolly should of held back with lights off until aggressor was spotted.

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Posted by Bob Hennessey on 03-05-2012 09:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by thebigcat454545
dont you have to find the aggressor before u can scratch? also if you run into a tree before 5 is up it should be minus, not scratch correct?? prolly should of held back with lights off until aggressor was spotted.

YOU ARE KIDDING, RIGHT?

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Posted by Cornbelt on 03-05-2012 09:26 PM:

2 dogs treed and you hear a bunch of bs going on so the cast moves in close to tree to observe the 2 dogs treeing while there is still 2 min left on tree. Dog A peels dog B off of tree and both dogs are in a real humdinger now. We know dog A is scratched for being the aggressor but lets say dog B is on top of dog A... can dog B be handled to stop the fight or would you have to wait until A was on top or the five was up?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 03-05-2012 09:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
2 dogs treed and you hear a bunch of bs going on so the cast moves in close to tree to observe the 2 dogs treeing while there is still 2 min left on tree. Dog A peels dog B off of tree and both dogs are in a real humdinger now. We know dog A is scratched for being the aggressor but lets say dog B is on top of dog A... can dog B be handled to stop the fight or would you have to wait until A was on top or the five was up?

That does bring up an interesting scenario, We know that when the agrssor ca be determined that only the agressor is scratched, so what happens to the innocent dogs tree points?

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Posted by GA DAWG on 03-05-2012 09:38 PM:

According to where the third dog was. I don't have to see crap to scratch 2 of them.

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Posted by DERICK GOLDMAN on 03-06-2012 12:06 AM:

scratch em both. write them up and keep the alligators at home. My dog isnt mean and its a load of crap to have to worry about her getting ate up in a cast. If a dog is an alligator scratchem or shoot em jmo

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Posted by Randy Tallon on 03-06-2012 12:39 AM:

WHEN YOU KNOW THE AGGRESSOR YOU SCRATCH THE AGGRESSOR!!!! I would call interference, time out, gather remaining dogs and move on with the cast. Jeez, I can't believe you guys that are so willing to start scratching (eliminating, in my mind) a dog that shouldn't be scratched. He clearly stated that the aggressor was known. To stand by and watch two dogs fight could be qualified as unsportsman like conduct. If you as a judge watch a dog start a fight and scratch both dogs a report is going to UKC and I am going to do my best to make sure you never handle a card again.

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Posted by Bob Hennessey on 03-06-2012 12:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Randy Tallon
WHEN YOU KNOW THE AGGRESSOR YOU SCRATCH THE AGGRESSOR!!!! I would call interference, time out, gather remaining dogs and move on with the cast. Jeez, I can't believe you guys that are so willing to start scratching (eliminating, in my mind) a dog that shouldn't be scratched. He clearly stated that the aggressor was known. To stand by and watch two dogs fight could be qualified as unsportsman like conduct. If you as a judge watch a dog start a fight and scratch both dogs a report is going to UKC and I am going to do my best to make sure you never handle a card again.

I think you better read the first post again. AGRESSOR WAS NOT KNOWN.

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Posted by thebigcat454545 on 03-06-2012 12:51 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by The Seeker
YOU ARE KIDDING, RIGHT?

No im not kidding, i have seen a few dog fights and while going in dogs stopped fighting and aggressor was not determined, dogs were tied to tree and tree was scored. it does say in rules that the aggressor is scratched. if there both fighting and aggressor is not determined i would scratch both.
A dog defending himeself doesn't always mean he's a gator. if a person runs a tree and lands on me id be p1ssed to!

Posted by otown on 03-06-2012 01:02 AM:

Scratch them both . If an inocent dog gets caught he shouldnt have anything to worry about down the road . I would gladly let my dog take one for team to get a gator wrote up , and if he is touchy or mean I wont hual him to town to begin with

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 03-06-2012 01:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Yes, you back out and continue to run the 5. There is no exception to the 5 minute rule that I know of unless all dogs are treed and you indicate a 4th dog is still trailing. You can't handle a dog at the tree before the 5 is up. If you do that is a scratch. Atleast that is how I understand it. I have been wrong before.

i dont know Jim i would thank once you enterferd with the tree
how could you un do it

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Posted by Corey Taylor on 03-06-2012 01:34 AM:

Per the UKC rule book - a dog will be scratched for fighting or attempting to fight during the authority of the judge. Dogs name, UKC number and owner's name will be reported to UKC on Nite Hunt report form. No handler will be allowed to scratch his dog to avoid his dog from being scratched for fighting. When the aggressor dog is known, scratch the aggressor only. If not known, scratch dogs involved.

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