UKC Forums - scoring trees with dogs not handled

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-- scoring trees with dogs not handled (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=488093)

Posted by jason keck on 03-04-2012 10:44 PM:

scoring trees with dogs not handled

Anyone ever here of this? Pretty sure they got to be handled regaurdless

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-04-2012 10:53 PM:

1st thing you gotta do is handle em. You talking all on one tree right?

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Posted by jason keck on 03-04-2012 10:57 PM:

Yes unless dog or dogs leaves then your minuses. What I was trying to get at you cannot circle a tree or plus a tree without dogs being handled

Posted by Hey Preacher!!! on 03-04-2012 11:57 PM:

YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN BE SHINING A TREE WITHOUT DOGS BEING HANDLED!!!

Posted by R K Stroud on 03-05-2012 03:20 AM:

Re: scoring trees with dogs not handled

quote:
Originally posted by jason keck
Anyone ever here of this? Pretty sure they got to be handled regaurdless

You are right dogs must be handled. In a hunt at our club recently there was a three dog cast. All three dogs were struck in and treed. When the cast arrived at the dogs two dogs were treed at the edge of the riverbarking at the water. One dog had swam out to an island and was treed up a tree on the edge of the island. All the cast could see the dog on the tree and the coon looking at them from the tree. The dogs strike points were circled because the river was considered a place of refuge and time out was called. The one hour rule for delay of cast got the dog on the island because she could not be called off the tree. I feel that this was scored correctly but it was a bad break for the dog on the island. She was penalized for doing what she was bred and trained to do. What are your thoughts

Posted by jason keck on 03-05-2012 03:34 AM:

Bad break for dog on island. As for the other 2 i do not consider water as refuge its an obstical that some dogs won't fool with so I would minus. My reason for this thread is its amazing how some people would try to circle a tree that dogs had left without ever being handled.

Posted by Rolin Blues on 03-05-2012 03:56 AM:

MINUS

2 dogs or they better learn how swim!!!

Been on casts- 3dogs treed- walk in & 1 dog on tree ten yards past a new 54" tall new woven wire fence & 2 dogs standing at the fence. Large oak tree with limbs hanging over fence, so 2 dogs ARE under the canopy, coon is seen. Different scenario, but same situation as you describe. 1 dog gets + & 2 dogs get minused BOTH ways. Take care, Ron.

PS- don't even bother with the "under canopy" BS with me.

Posted by howie on 03-05-2012 05:15 AM:

Barking on the water. Definately minused. Like the other gentleman said, dog need to learn how to swim.

Posted by Hey Preacher!!! on 03-05-2012 05:23 AM:

DOGS TREEING ON FENCE- THAT FENCE BETTER BE NAILED TO THE TREE THE COON'S IN, IF 1 DOG MADE IT, THEY ALL CAN, SAME WITH WATER!!!

Posted by truly on 03-05-2012 06:02 AM:

heres a question on that- if you can't get to the dog to handle it, then you are not supposed to score it. If you can't score it, how can you start a 1 hour clock? I would think that you would have to continue trying to get to the dog before you could start the hour? even if it includes going to a bridge and trying to get to the dog from the other side.

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Posted by Hey Preacher!!! on 03-05-2012 06:37 AM:

BEN IS RIGHT, YOU CAN'T SCORE THAT TREE ON THE ISLAND WITHOUT FIRST HANDLING THE DOG!!! THE ONE HOUR 'OUT OF POCKET' RULE??? THE DOG'S NOT OUT OF POCKET YOU KNOW EXCACTLY WHERE HE IS, NOT HIS FAULT YOU CAN'T GET TO HIM!!!

Posted by JSTARR on 03-05-2012 02:29 PM:

I would swim the river ,,handle my dog ,,get the plus points and minus the other dogs..

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Posted by Lance Laymon on 03-05-2012 03:30 PM:

Young fella drown doing that a few years ago on a cast. Not worth $20, it is just a cast. Gettem next time.

Posted by Mntn T Kennels on 03-05-2012 03:39 PM:

fences

what would you do if in 2 dog cast you cut loose strike then your dog shuts up while the other trees. when you get there your dog is on one side of a fence while the other dog is on the side where the coon is treeing. can you call interference for that? my dog couldn't fit through the fence and it was to tall to jump over. the other dog was timy and fit in under fine.

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Posted by Bob Hennessey on 03-05-2012 04:27 PM:

Some one will have to show me where there is a reference to INTERFERENCE in the rules.

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Posted by JiM on 03-05-2012 05:18 PM:

Re: fences

quote:
Originally posted by Mntn T Kennels
what would you do if in 2 dog cast you cut loose strike then your dog shuts up while the other trees. when you get there your dog is on one side of a fence while the other dog is on the side where the coon is treeing. can you call interference for that? my dog couldn't fit through the fence and it was to tall to jump over. the other dog was timy and fit in under fine.

The answer is "no", you can't call interference for that.

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 03-05-2012 06:37 PM:

Put a better handle on ur dogs!
U should be able to call the dogs(s) heel, come,here or whatever u choose to command the dog regardless if they r treed!
IMO its lack of training that this dogs suffered penalties .
The dog swam the river , when I call he'll swim it back to me.
U know coonhunting doesn't have to be that hard.
Put a handle on the dog.

Posted by Hey Preacher!!! on 03-05-2012 06:42 PM:

THE DOG ON THE ISLAND DOESN'T NEED TO BE CALLED OFF THE TREE, THE CAST NEEDS TO FIND A WAY TO THE DOG!!!

Posted by Dogwhisper on 03-05-2012 07:06 PM:

Why? Does the cast have to get to the tree?
They can see the coon in the tree from this side of the river!
Plus the swimmer minus the chicken dogs.
Handler call ur dog back to u.
Commonsense to me.

Posted by john Duemmer on 03-05-2012 07:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
Why? Does the cast have to get to the tree?
They can see the coon in the tree from this side of the river!
Plus the swimmer minus the chicken dogs.
Handler call ur dog back to u.
Commonsense to me.

Cant use common sense, this is UKC.

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 03-05-2012 07:14 PM:

Ohhh
Well we got a problem then .
I'm using common sense
Scratch me!
See ya next time!

Posted by Hey Preacher!!! on 03-05-2012 07:19 PM:

YOU CAN'T SCORE THE TREE BEFORE HANDLING THE DOG AT THE TREE!!! 'HANDLING' HAS LONG BEEN ESTABLISHED TO MEAN 'LEASHING'!!! IF THERE IS ANOTHER UKC ACCEPTABLE METHOD FOR HANDLING YOUR DOG, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE USE IT!!! I EVEN SAW ONE JUDGE WHO WAS GONNA SCRATCH A DOG FOR FAILURE TO HANDLE AT THE TREE BCAUSE THE GUY LEFT HIS LEAD AT THE TRUCK, LUCKILY SOMEONE HAD A SPARE AND WAS NICE ENOUGH TO LOAN IT TO HIM!!! UNLESS I'M MISTAKEN YOU CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO SHINE A TREE WITHOUT EVERY DOG PRESENT BEING ON A LEAD!!!

Posted by Okie Dawg on 03-06-2012 04:24 PM:

Re: Re: scoring trees with dogs not handled

quote:
Originally posted by R K Stroud
You are right dogs must be handled. In a hunt at our club recently there was a three dog cast. All three dogs were struck in and treed. When the cast arrived at the dogs two dogs were treed at the edge of the riverbarking at the water. One dog had swam out to an island and was treed up a tree on the edge of the island. All the cast could see the dog on the tree and the coon looking at them from the tree. The dogs strike points were circled because the river was considered a place of refuge and time out was called. The one hour rule for delay of cast got the dog on the island because she could not be called off the tree. I feel that this was scored correctly but it was a bad break for the dog on the island. She was penalized for doing what she was bred and trained to do. What are your thoughts

That is another good reason for haveing a good come command in your dog.
If you can't put your hands on her she is out of pocket.

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