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-- the dog on the papers or the dog in the woods ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=478390)

the dog on the papers or the dog in the woods ?

How does UKC know the dog being turned loose in the woods on the cast is the dog listed on the entry card and entered in the hunt ? And what would the penalty be for someone caught doing this ? And how much reward does the snitch get ?

Snitches get stitches !

They don't know it's the correct dog...doing random DNA swabs at hunts would help..but they need to start having the females DNA also for this to be 100 % effective.

__________________
CH GRNITECH STAR HILL RAGIN BLACK JUDGE
(GRNTCH THUNDER VALLEY RAGIN OX x GRNTCH KY RIVER CHIGGER)
STAR HILL RAGIN BLK JUDGE II
(CH GRNTCH STAR HILL RAGIN BLACK JUDGE x Ch NTCH Lil PUke)

Frank & Lisa Yates
RAYWICK KY
270-692-6713

I don't think they even need to mention that one in the "honor" rules.

No..it doesn't take any mention in the honor rules. A person, to make the honor rules effective, has to have so honor. Anyone who does hunt the wrong dog knowingly would surely be barred for life. There is absolutely no room in this sport for an outright cheat, and low life of sorts. Why would they do it? Yes i know, to try and make their no good dog look good on paper, and maybe attrach some customers for this now wonderful stud dog, and in doing so, polluting the breed with no good genes in the process. Oh yeah, I'm sure UKC would deal fast and swiftly with an indiviual(S) who would do something like that. Come to think of it, the breed associations should, and probably would help to see that these low rent folks were done forever in the hound world.

You mentioned what the "snitch" gets? Simple. He/She gets the satisfaction of knowing that they helped keep honor in our sport, and saw that the breed in question will be a better breed in the long run because of their actions. Sure, some folks will look down on them, only because they were, or are planning on doing something simular. I for one would shake their hand and tell them thank you. The majoroity of folks would.

The real sad thing about this thread? Rumor has it having happened in a major hunt already, but that is hear-say.

__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

Bright Eye Lights


Treeing Walkers

912-663-5287 cell (perfered)

I couldn't have said it better myself Robert! Honesty is a big part of this sport, and sadly a lot of people lack it.

__________________
Home of:
GRCH 'PR' HELMICK'S BARBIE DOLL
CH 'PR' SUNDOWN TIMBER RIPPIN' REBEL

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quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Johnson
No..it doesn't take any mention in the honor rules. A person, to make the honor rules effective, has to have so honor. Anyone who does hunt the wrong dog knowingly would surely be barred for life. There is absolutely no room in this sport for an outright cheat, and low life of sorts. Why would they do it? Yes i know, to try and make their no good dog look good on paper, and maybe attrach some customers for this now wonderful stud dog, and in doing so, polluting the breed with no good genes in the process. Oh yeah, I'm sure UKC would deal fast and swiftly with an indiviual(S) who would do something like that. Come to think of it, the breed associations should, and probably would help to see that these low rent folks were done forever in the hound world.

You mentioned what the "snitch" gets? Simple. He/She gets the satisfaction of knowing that they helped keep honor in our sport, and saw that the breed in question will be a better breed in the long run because of their actions. Sure, some folks will look down on them, only because they were, or are planning on doing something simular. I for one would shake their hand and tell them thank you. The majoroity of folks would.

The real sad thing about this thread? Rumor has it having happened in a major hunt already, but that is hear-say.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dirtdevil
Snitches get stitches !

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Rip-Roarin' Redbone Kennel
It's gotta be RED!!!!
When God knew I needed a friend, He sent my dogs, when He needed a coondog, He took them back.
http://www.myspace.com/janetandbarrymorris

I could see only two benefits to doing it and neither are really such that I see this ever becoming a big problem.

What other reasons would there be other than hunting an already titled dog under 'PR' papers in order to be in an easier cast and win more Performance money or do it in order to raise a dogs repruducing percentage.

I have heard rumors in the past about a couple redbone breeders using the same dog to put titles on three or four dogs out of the same litter in order to make thier dogs look like better reproducers but that's probably just a rumor.

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Golden Woods Bo
Golden Woods Fancy B

i would be more worred about people selling junk dogs with good papers more. id say your likely to see that more then the hunting with the wrong dogs papers.

So the bottom line here is that UKC has no idea at all if its going on and no way to catch anybody doing it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
So the bottom line here is that UKC has no idea at all if its going on and no way to catch anybody doing it.

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__________________
Rip-Roarin' Redbone Kennel
It's gotta be RED!!!!
When God knew I needed a friend, He sent my dogs, when He needed a coondog, He took them back.
http://www.myspace.com/janetandbarrymorris

WHY NOT HAVE THE CLUBS HAVE A DNA KIT AVAILABLE , AND IF FOR SOME REASON THERE IS A DOG IN QUESTION SWAB IT ,
THEN THEY CAN TRACE THE DOG AND SEE , ANYONE HUNTING IN A UKC HUNT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THERE DOG BEING CHECKED , SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD WAY TO CATCH CROOKS IF THERE ARE ANY

__________________
MERLE COBLENTZ
937-313-2880 CELL
CALL TEXT VOXER
HOME OF GOODTIME KENNEL
WHERE WE SHOW ON THE HARDWOOD

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
So the bottom line here is that UKC has no idea at all if its going on and no way to catch anybody doing it.

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__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

Bright Eye Lights


Treeing Walkers

912-663-5287 cell (perfered)

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
So the bottom line here is that UKC has no idea at all if its going on and no way to catch anybody doing it.

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__________________
Autumn Clements

'PR'LEAD'S MIDNITE SASSY
CFC CH Canadian GCH Multi Group Placing MBPIG BBPIG LEGACYK STANNYFIELD PRIME TIME (AKC & UKC Pointed)
BPIG MBBPIG WINDAMIRS RED LIGHT DISTRICT V AMBERLANE
LEGACYK DARE TO DREAM V CBLUES
LEGACYK WHITE AS A GHOST V CBLUES

Gone but not forgotten
GRNITECH GRCH PKC CH'PR'CLEMENTS' BLUE PRANCER
GRNITECH GRCH'PR'SPIKE'S TWILITE HOOKER
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CKC BBPIG MARIES BABY BREEZE

quote:

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Originally posted by Virgil
[B

I have heard rumors in the past about a couple redbone breeders using the same dog to put titles on three or four dogs out of the same litter in order to make thier dogs look like better reproducers but that's probably just a rumor. [/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
So the bottom line here is that UKC has no idea at all if its going on and no way to catch anybody doing it.

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__________________
Rip Acorn Creek Black Swamp Jester

In Honor of Jim Sizemore, " This ain't no benchshow!"

In 2011 a participant of a cast at Toisnot Swamp CHA was found guilty of hunting a Nt Ch female walker in a registered cast under the papers of a registered female. The notice was published in Coonhound Bloodlines (DAC section), I'd guess the June, July, August, or September issue?
The individual was barred. Pictures from facebook were used as evidence.


I saw the reasons listed above, I have 2 reasons to add for why this would be done.
1 - Money; it's much easier to sell a dog off the chain if it has a win slip or two. A win slip makes some folks think they do not need the trial....
2 - Money; if you are hunting a dog for someone else and are getting paid to finish it out for them it may be easier to finish out a better dog rather than waste time and rack up cast losses with a mediocre dog....

__________________
L. Chris Herring
Pine Cone Redbones
"And let us not be weary in well doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not." Gal. 6:9

Home of:
CH 'PR' Herring's Pine Cone Tally-Ho (TALLY)
and
In Memory of - CH 'PR' Herring's Pine Cone Chance; aka "The Phenomenon"

wrong papers

Why not take pictures of each cast in the hunt and keep a copy with the hunt results,then if there's any question,you have something to compare to.

I like the way some of the foreign working titles are done. Their title/test cert has photo of dog.

Other venues require the dog be chipped or tattood with their registration number in order to compete. Any championship or big comp the owner who has a chipped dog must bring scanner and prove number before allowed to compete.

Maybe we could work to get a rule that all dogs must have their UKC/AKC number tattood on their belly in order to compete.

__________________
It ain't the bark, it ain't the growl, it's the bite that hurts!

Happens all time

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE 'HUNTING THE WRONG DOG PART', BUT WHEN I WAS A LITTLE BOY, I HEARD STORIES ABOUT AN OLD DOG TRADER, THEY SAID THAT OLD MAN HAD A DRESSER FULL OF PAPERS AND YOU COULD GET WHAT EVER YOU WERE WILLING TO PAY FOR!!! THAT OLD MAN IS DEAD NOW BUT I HEARD A LOT OF STORIES ABOUT HIM WHEN I WAS A BOY!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Hey Preacher!!!
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE 'HUNTING THE WRONG DOG PART', BUT WHEN I WAS A LITTLE BOY, I HEARD STORIES ABOUT AN OLD DOG TRADER, THEY SAID THAT OLD MAN HAD A DRESSER FULL OF PAPERS AND YOU COULD GET WHAT EVER YOU WERE WILLING TO PAY FOR!!! THAT OLD MAN IS DEAD NOW BUT I HEARD A LOT OF STORIES ABOUT HIM WHEN I WAS A BOY!!!

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wildbills101@hotmail
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PAPERS

But what happens when u r hunting the rite dog with the rite papers and u still get caught up in bull crap or when u r hunting with a judge that wants to get everyone on the cast to minus out so he can get a first place win on his dog that hes been hunting for 4 years man and finally gets his first place win at the expense of the others that hes hunting with his dog did not win he won it is bad when your dog gets beat out not by the dog in the hunt but by the judge I mean where is the fairness in that

so all you need is a entry card and a hound and neither have to match sounds like a loop hole lol

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Country Boy Can Survive



Anderson County Coon Club
Lance White
865-919-7234