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Posted by TRDean on 10-28-2011 01:59 PM:

Coon trailing question...

Ok, so my question is: usually, once a dog strikes a coon trail how long before they tree? Also, how is the best way to tell if my dog is running deer or something? I think I may be running deer just do to how fast the dogs are running. Is this a good indicator? When trailing coon (on a smokin hot track) are the dogs moving fast or slow? I know it depends on the individual dog...but generalities may apply. Any info would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!

Posted by patches9452 on 10-28-2011 02:40 PM:

i have trailed them from a few seconds up to 5 hrs at a hard run in febuary on a rutting coon.... they can run fast like a deer at times but if the majority of your races are fast and going out of hearing i would say you have a deer problem.... those fast long races are the exception not the rule around here

Posted by TRDean on 10-28-2011 05:53 PM:

btt

btt

Posted by croatankid on 10-28-2011 05:59 PM:

i've never had a good coon hound but i've got a couple that are pretty trashy. i know what you mean. mine run fox but i don't think they run deer. they've gone out of hearing too and sometimes they will circle a few times and other times they will go up the road a mile and then back again a few times. i've seen fox several times so i know they run them pretty often.

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 10-28-2011 06:00 PM:

I would agree with patches... most "fast" races where the dogs are nearly running, should be short lived. Coons just aren't inclined to run that long, as opposed to climbing. Their natural defense is to climb away from danger. A rutting coon would be the exception to the rule, as they are making long trips looking for sows, but if you're on a rut track, your dog should tap a couple trees at the beginning, as the boar is usually climbing and checking dens looking for sows.

David Schmidt

Posted by justin tumbleso on 10-28-2011 06:03 PM:

Not sure what part of the country your from, but around Ohio a dog should't average more than 20 minutes a track.

If everytime I turn them, I expect a 45-60 minute wait before they get treed, they'll be heading down the road shortly.

On average I would say a dog should average 15-20 minutes in between the time they first strike until they get treed.

On your off game subject: If the tracks seem to be smoking hot and end clear across the country, you probably have a deer runner. Though its hard for one to say sitting at a key board and not being present. My advise would be to turn him loose on some deer with an E Collar. If he runs them you have a deer runner and correct the problem. If he doesn't run them, He's most likely pretty clean.

Just my two cents.

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 10-28-2011 06:12 PM:

Justin is right... deer run straight and fast. Coyotes and fox run more in circular patterns, and rabbits run smaller circles. Both may double-back, but all of this is different from how a coon runs.

I too would track down a buddy with a e-collar put it on your dog and find some off-game to turn them out on. I would start with deer as they are the easiest to find in fields and pastures in the evenings and most likely suspect. The one thing to bear in mind, is to let them run a bit and get a nose full of scent before you bust them, but don't let them get out of sight. You always want to make sure you are certain what they are running before you shock them. If they get out of sight, you have no way of knowing if they switched over to a coon.

David Schmidt

Posted by old ben on 10-28-2011 08:48 PM:

how often is the dog hunted

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Posted by GLANCY'S 7 MILE on 10-28-2011 08:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
I would agree with patches... most "fast" races where the dogs are nearly running, should be short lived. Coons just aren't inclined to run that long, as opposed to climbing. Their natural defense is to climb away from danger. A rutting coon would be the exception to the rule, as they are making long trips looking for sows, but if you're on a rut track, your dog should tap a couple trees at the beginning, as the boar is usually climbing and checking dens looking for sows

I agree!

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Posted by curtis hansley on 10-28-2011 09:09 PM:

when a dog is going deep fast i try to bring thim back faster than they left,and most of the time there ready to go somewhere else.lol.

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 10-28-2011 09:39 PM:

if your hunting patch woods they will usually tree at the beging
or end of the woods if he comes out you may have a problem
if he comes out of the second one you got a problem.i have
never seen one that could run a deer very long with temp.
like we have had up till the last week.i have never seen a
5 hr coon race or a deer race a dog should catch either 1.

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Posted by patches9452 on 10-28-2011 09:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lee Currens Jr.
if your hunting patch woods they will usually tree at the beging
or end of the woods if he comes out you may have a problem
if he comes out of the second one you got a problem.i have
never seen one that could run a deer very long with temp.
like we have had up till the last week.i have never seen a
5 hr coon race or a deer race a dog should catch either 1.

well i have... we saw the coon several different times crossing from the cutover back into the greentree.... its my favorite time to hunt.... anydog can tree a hot 100 yd coon but let them have to get in a five hr race where they are in knee to thigh deep water and cutover and you will cull a lot of them

Posted by TRDean on 10-29-2011 03:53 PM:

Thanks for the great info guys...

The first time the dog went in circles...the circle was about 100 yards in diameter...they went twice...basically directly over the same track. Then the race stopped. The next nite they hit a fast track that was more strait line...but only went for about 10 minutes...both times the dog quit the race...so I don't know what is going on. I have purchased a shock collar...so I hope to try to correct the issue if it is a problem. This dog is being hunted 3-4 nites a week and is 11 months old.

Once again, I am very grateful for the assistance!

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 10-29-2011 03:57 PM:

leave it alone let him learn to run track.you start
shocking it for everything it will be standing beside
you.

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Posted by perry co cooner on 10-29-2011 06:46 PM:

On any deer runner I have seen they ran the track wide open and screaming fast almost like a hot corn field chase were they could **** near see the coon. They get out of hearing quick. If it's a coon that they are running that fast then it's either going to have to climb or get caught but either way it shouldn't take long.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 10-29-2011 07:09 PM:

Re: Thanks for the great info guys...

quote:
Originally posted by TRDean
The first time the dog went in circles...the circle was about 100 yards in diameter...they went twice...basically directly over the same track. Then the race stopped. The next nite they hit a fast track that was more strait line...but only went for about 10 minutes...both times the dog quit the race...so I don't know what is going on. I have purchased a shock collar...so I hope to try to correct the issue if it is a problem. This dog is being hunted 3-4 nites a week and is 11 months old.

Once again, I am very grateful for the assistance!

Try to drop them down wind of deer you know are there. Like in a hay field were you can see the dear. Then send the hound toward them. If it gives chase shock it and when it comes back walk it in a diferant direction till it goes hunting.
You can do the same thing on trash you see cross the road. Make the punishment fit the crime. Don't try to cook it the first time but the more it percests the hotter it gets. BUT MAKE IT HOT ENOUGH THE FIRST BUMP that it doesn't want to keep going.
After I hit it on hot long enough to stop the chase I bump it all the way back to me on a low setting. Then send it again and will hunt it till I find a coon to put out on it that night NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES. so it gets a big reward for doing it right.

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Posted by J-T Farms on 10-30-2011 04:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Justin is right... deer run straight and fast. Coyotes and fox run more in circular patterns, and rabbits run smaller circles. Both may double-back, but all of this is different from how a coon runs.

I too would track down a buddy with a e-collar put it on your dog and find some off-game to turn them out on. I would start with deer as they are the easiest to find in fields and pastures in the evenings and most likely suspect. The one thing to bear in mind, is to let them run a bit and get a nose full of scent before you bust them, but don't let them get out of sight. You always want to make sure you are certain what they are running before you shock them. If they get out of sight, you have no way of knowing if they switched over to a coon.

David Schmidt

well guys, I agree with most of this, but, here in Ark. our deer will fool ya bad. We have had dogs that would take a deer and run within a 1/2 mile circle all night. The deer will just keep circleing the ridge where he stays. Yotes will circle some but will usualy leave out at some point. We used to deer hunt with dogs, and would be able to kill deer due to this fact and could get in front of them. Sorry to intrude but it's just my opinion and location. Have a good day.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 10-30-2011 08:17 PM:

Re: Re: Thanks for the great info guys...

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
Try to drop them down wind of deer you know are there. Like in a hay field were you can see the dear. Then send the hound toward them. If it gives chase shock it and when it comes back walk it in a diferant direction till it goes hunting.
You can do the same thing on trash you see cross the road. Make the punishment fit the crime. Don't try to cook it the first time but the more it percests the hotter it gets. BUT MAKE IT HOT ENOUGH THE FIRST BUMP that it doesn't want to keep going.
After I hit it on hot long enough to stop the chase I bump it all the way back to me on a low setting. Then send it again and will hunt it till I find a coon to put out on it that night NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES. so it gets a big reward for doing it right.

its a rabbit

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Posted by PlottChaser on 10-30-2011 10:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by J-T Farms
well guys, I agree with most of this, but, here in Ark. our deer will fool ya bad. We have had dogs that would take a deer and run within a 1/2 mile circle all night. The deer will just keep circleing the ridge where he stays. Yotes will circle some but will usualy leave out at some point. We used to deer hunt with dogs, and would be able to kill deer due to this fact and could get in front of them. Sorry to intrude but it's just my opinion and location. Have a good day.

I agree with this too. Deer will circle like rabbits, just a lot bigger circle. Sometimes up to 3/4- 1 mile wide circles. Any dog can outrun any coon on a hot track and the coon will have to climb. If they start out on a cold track and cant warm it up fairly quickly within 10-15 minutes I get tired of waiting. My best dog never takes longer than 10 minutes from first bark until she's treed. Except in the deeper swamps then she might take 15- 20 minutes to line it out.

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Posted by TRDean on 10-31-2011 11:25 AM:

Great Info...

Well, I took the dog out for training during the day so that I could see what is going on. 5 minutes into the first drop...dog blows up...and deer comes running right past me...so I gave him a correction. Then the dog was given a second drop...he started trailing something very slowly. Never found out what it was. Then, later dog blows up again, lines out moving fast...I let dog get about 600 yards out and brought him back. It seems to me the dog only runs deer that it bumps...it is running them...not trailing them up. This is still only an 11 month old dog...so I feel he is doing pretty good...

Second question...this is a young dog...he gets on slow moving tracks...but seems to give up on them after 15-20 minutes..is this normal for a young dog when learning?

Posted by TRDean on 10-31-2011 04:21 PM:

btt

Posted by Okie Dawg on 10-31-2011 04:45 PM:

Re: Great Info...

quote:
Originally posted by TRDean
Well, I took the dog out for training during the day so that I could see what is going on. 5 minutes into the first drop...dog blows up...and deer comes running right past me...so I gave him a correction. Then the dog was given a second drop...he started trailing something very slowly. Never found out what it was. Then, later dog blows up again, lines out moving fast...I let dog get about 600 yards out and brought him back. It seems to me the dog only runs deer that it bumps...it is running them...not trailing them up. This is still only an 11 month old dog...so I feel he is doing pretty good...

Second question...this is a young dog...he gets on slow moving tracks...but seems to give up on them after 15-20 minutes..is this normal for a young dog when learning?

How well a young dog does on a trail depends on the dog and conditions of the trail. I would keep dumping him near dear and you can use cattle too. Just lead him toward cattle till they break and run away. Then let him go. If he starts to chase them burn him alive with the elec. till he quits. Then walk around them or in the other direction.
While I was working on this with him I would trap and release coon to him. That way you are giveing him permission to hunt what you want him to and correcting him for bad behavior.
Dump the coon out of the cage in an open area so he has to go a wase to a tree. Then let the dog go so he can catch it before it gets up. That way he will see it climb and will probubly get his nose scratched in the process.
Don's let him bawl at the cage till he wears himself out. Just till he gets excited and wants it.
Good Luck

Posted by Robert Johnson on 10-31-2011 07:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Justin is right... deer run straight and fast. Coyotes and fox run more in circular patterns, and rabbits run smaller circles. Both may double-back, but all of this is different from how a coon runs.

I too would track down a buddy with a e-collar put it on your dog and find some off-game to turn them out on. I would start with deer as they are the easiest to find in fields and pastures in the evenings and most likely suspect. The one thing to bear in mind, is to let them run a bit and get a nose full of scent before you bust them, but don't let them get out of sight. You always want to make sure you are certain what they are running before you shock them. If they get out of sight, you have no way of knowing if they switched over to a coon.

David Schmidt

David you may be right on the straight and fast thing for Northern Deer, but down south where we can use hounds to hunt deer with, the chase may be straight and fast, or just a wide slow circle. All depends on how the hounds push them, and what you are running. Large Bucks tend to want to leave quickly, does and yearling may run in a 10 acre circle for hours.

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Posted by patches9452 on 10-31-2011 09:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by PlottChaser
I agree with this too. Deer will circle like rabbits, just a lot bigger circle. Sometimes up to 3/4- 1 mile wide circles. Any dog can outrun any coon on a hot track and the coon will have to climb. If they start out on a cold track and cant warm it up fairly quickly within 10-15 minutes I get tired of waiting. My best dog never takes longer than 10 minutes from first bark until she's treed. Except in the deeper swamps then she might take 15- 20 minutes to line it out.

that might be the case in il but i promise you we got some hunting in mississippi that you can watch the coon cross the road turn loose on it and never tree that sucker becuse they will flat walk off and leave a dog

Posted by TRDean on 11-03-2011 01:03 AM:

BTT

BTT

Lookin for advice...

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