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slick handlers

I see post after post about how slick handlers finish dogs. How long will it take people to realize the only reason slick handlers are allowed to be slick is the other members of the cast? If you know the rules and are assertive enough to use them it will shut down a slick handler. After the first dump you should know well enough if he's pitching his dog or trying to be slick in other ways. Quit whining and moaning on a message board about gettin screwed and minus him. It might cause an argument but at least the best dog will win. Its not that hard guys.

whats your solution to drawing out a couple buddies and one of them carrying the card????




seems some on here got simple solutions to issues some of us run into from time to time....till you hunt with some true crooks, solutions sound great on a forum....


"know the rules and you cant get cheated" come on...its an honor system and votes mean something...theres more than one way to skin a coon and theres more than one way to get cheated...and in the nite hunts, theres a good handful of ways to cheat and not a darned thing you can do about it...


great example...2 buddies and you in a 3 dog cast...one of them got the card...their 2 dogs slick yours goes off and trees alone...they vote circle..your vote dont matter...can bet the farm they arent getting minused on a tree that nite..yours is at a legitimate den..they say the hole is too small for a coon to fit and both vote slick..your minused...

take it back to the club and its your word against theirs...the judge is the judge and the MOH has to side with them..2 votes against yours...

CHEATED and nothing you can do about it really...


"oh your dog moved its minused" even though it never stopped treeing and is blowing the top outta the tree..

"my dogs not moving!" (and got the score card)


lots of ways it can happen...


having a COONDOG and knowing the rules REALLY does help...but, its not an end all...and the best dog doesnt always win...THAT is reality...

yes many times if the handler knew the rules, or knew their dog better, or knew the way the hunts worked better etc etc it wouldnt happen near as often...i was taken advantage of a bunch when i was new to the hunts...but, its not an end all....

ive drawn out 2 buddies on a 3 dog cast a time or 2...dont care what kinda coon dog you got..if they are crooked, you might as well go home and pleasure hunt coz you aint gunna win..

not saying being friends with anyone in a cast is BAD...ive hunted with guys that were good friends and had GREAT hunts with them...but, if the buddies are crooked, they can cheat you and get away with it...


even if guys ARENT buddies, but dont wanna take minus and you got an independent dog, your gunna have a tough time...even a 2-2 vote on a tree is still a circle...if you got a coon dog you can stay ahead of them so long as you can get the coon seen on the outside everytime..

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quote:

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Originally posted by mauser06
whats your solution to drawing out a couple buddies and one of them carrying the card????




seems some on here got simple solutions to issues some of us run into from time to time....till you hunt with some true crooks, solutions sound great on a forum....


"know the rules and you cant get cheated" come on...its an honor system and votes mean something...theres more than one way to skin a coon and theres more than one way to get cheated...and in the nite hunts, theres a good handful of ways to cheat and not a darned thing you can do about it...


great example...2 buddies and you in a 3 dog cast...one of them got the card...their 2 dogs slick yours goes off and trees alone...they vote circle..your vote dont matter...can bet the farm they arent getting minused on a tree that nite..yours is at a legitimate den..they say the hole is too small for a coon to fit and both vote slick..your minused...

take it back to the club and its your word against theirs...the judge is the judge and the MOH has to side with them..2 votes against yours...

CHEATED and nothing you can do about it really...


"oh your dog moved its minused" even though it never stopped treeing and is blowing the top outta the tree..

"my dogs not moving!" (and got the score card)


lots of ways it can happen...


having a COONDOG and knowing the rules REALLY does help...but, its not an end all...and the best dog doesnt always win...THAT is reality...

yes many times if the handler knew the rules, or knew their dog better, or knew the way the hunts worked better etc etc it wouldnt happen near as often...i was taken advantage of a bunch when i was new to the hunts...but, its not an end all....

ive drawn out 2 buddies on a 3 dog cast a time or 2...dont care what kinda coon dog you got..if they are crooked, you might as well go home and pleasure hunt coz you aint gunna win..

not saying being friends with anyone in a cast is BAD...ive hunted with guys that were good friends and had GREAT hunts with them...but, if the buddies are crooked, they can cheat you and get away with it...


even if guys ARENT buddies, but dont wanna take minus and you got an independent dog, your gunna have a tough time...even a 2-2 vote on a tree is still a circle...if you got a coon dog you can stay ahead of them so long as you can get the coon seen on the outside everytime..

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__________________
RICHARD BULL

www.littletkennels.com

Some handler's are cheaters. But then other times, I had to learn that the truth of the matter is, just because i made a really really dumb move and he made a smart move, don't make him a bad person or a slick handler or a cheater, he just made a better choice.

__________________
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Thank you Richard. And my post had nothing to do with the buddy system but if its that bad file a complaint. I drew two buddies this weekend but they still lost. Hold your ground.

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Bull
It's simple: FILE A FORMAL COMPLIAINT... Let UKC figure out who is doing the cheating... If they have the proof then it's a simple fix

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
So Richard lets just say I draw 2 friends who cheat the heck outa me and I go back to the clubhouse and say i'm filing a formal complaint on them. First of all UKC will take all 3 sides of the story (which they should). Who will come out looking like the "sore loser" "cry baby" etc..?

Also say they turn the tables on you at the club and get with each other to make up lies about you and write you up. Now, how would that go over? Two friends in a 3 dog cast can make up whatever story they want to. Been there, seen it. Try to stand up and your the "sore loser" cry baby..

I have been in the hunts several years now and I have learned alot! I have given UKC thousands of dollars to earn titles on my dogs and I very much enjoy this sport but anyone and everyone needs to realize you will have your good hunts and your bad. I try to be enjoyable to hunt with and make sure the best dog wins but any man that isn't getting a fair shake isn't going to be a happy person.

I will say alot of problems arise because not all cast members know the rules then they want to argue.

Last weekend I was at a local hunt. One cast came back after my cast and they were somewhat arguing. They were arguing because the judge and another cast member told this fella in the cast that his dog which was shut out on a tree and treeing when the cast got in there goes in for next available on the tree and minused on tree and strike because the coon was seen. The MOH real the rule on the back of the scorecard and said they did the right thing. I coukdn't help but butting in so I told them they did it completly wrong.

I said for one thing the dog was shutout on the tree so his strike could not be minused. I then explained that a dog only goes on for next available and minused on a slick tree or off game tree. I said the rule is black and white and had they simply looked at the back of the card the argument would have been avoided.

(g) Dogs treeing, but not declared treed, when
Judge arrives, will be minused on tree points on
“off” game or slick tree. Points will be detrmined by
next available position in the case of one dog, or
split available tree points in the case of two or more
dogs.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jculler8
Nothing says you have to wait until the cast has been completed. If it were me, I'd be asking for a non-hunting judge either before we left the clubhouse or after the 1st drop if its that bad!

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The answer to it all is formal complaint! If its their word against yours nothing may be done the first time a complaint is filed but the next time they do it to somebody else and get written up UKC will deal with it.. The biggest reason that cheaters get by with cheating is most people pout up and go home instead of filling a complaint. I hear about a lot of people that get cheated but I hardly ever hear of anybody doing anything about it. If your not part of the solution your part of the problem!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jon Millwood
The answer to it all is formal complaint! If its their word against yours nothing may be done the first time a complaint is filed but the next time they do it to somebody else and get written up UKC will deal with it.. The biggest reason that cheaters get by with cheating is most people pout up and go home instead of filling a complaint. I hear about a lot of people that get cheated but I hardly ever hear of anybody doing anything about it. If your not part of the solution your part of the problem!

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I think of it like this, there's cheaters in every sport. If you have to CHEAT TO WIN, DO YOU REALLY WIN? I'm sure there is plenty of NITECH's AND GRNITECH's dogs out there that don't deserve their title. If it takes a slick handler or a cheater to finish a dog out what do they have? Me personally I'm not going to feed a dog that I have to cheat to win with. SERIOUSLY WHAT ARE YOU FEEDING. If you've got a good dog and it takes you a while to finish it out so be it, atleast you did it honest and you know your dog truley EARNED IT. A title now a days in no way shape or form determines how good a dog is.

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On a deal like that the only thing the formal complaint will do is let everyone know what happened. To many time handlers come back to the club and complain in the corner about how they were cheated. Or on here come Monday morning. Everyone gets asked what happened on the cast when they get back if you where really cheated then point a finger at them and tell it in front of everyone. You will still be cheated that night but they will think twice about it next time.

However before you start filling out complaints and pointing fingers make dang sure that you were cheated and that you don't just have a different opinion of what happened then they do. Because more often than not its a difference in opinion that leads people to accuse others of cheating.

I have yet to run into a slick handler while pleasure hunting. Dumb-azzes a plenty, no slick ones though.

__________________
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Yes, there are 'slick handlers' and 'cheaters' out there!

But, not near as many as there are those who let them get by with it!!!

I have been hunting competition about as long as any. I enjoy going out to have a good time. That is what I plan on doing everytime I draw out. Win, loose, draw, or get cheated! LOL

In the last 12 - 15 years, I have been 'cheated' three or four times. Almost everytime was my own fault, me letting it be done. And yes, twice of the three or four times was 3 dog cast in a buddy situation.

Also, I ONLY HUNT UKC HUNTS. Not to start a "WAR", but EVERYONE of the hunters that I was cheated by, were big time hunters in the money hunts. I guess that is just the way it is in their world........ But not in mine. AND IT SHOULD NOT BE SO IN OUR SPORT. WE EVERYONE SHOULD BE WORKING TO STOP ANY AND ALL CHEATING.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Some handler's are cheaters. But then other times, I had to learn that the truth of the matter is, just because i made a really really dumb move and he made a smart move, don't make him a bad person or a slick handler or a cheater, he just made a better choice.

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