UKC Forums - How would you judge

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Posted by rghnd123 on 03-12-2011 02:25 PM:

How would you judge

A 4 dog cast. 2 dogs split and declared treed. Quit treeing and 2 is running and finally catces em. Other two dogs declared treed they also quit treeing and 2 catches em. Timeout is called and strike points deleted. When the 2 dogs that were declared treed last were handled they were locked together. Female was scratched and males minus was deleted for interference. This seemed the most logical thing. What's your judgement call on this one?

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Posted by James Garrison on 03-12-2011 02:37 PM:

I think by Locked together you mean mating but alot of us thought you were talking about fighting

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 03-12-2011 02:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by James Garrison
I think by Locked together you mean mating but alot of us thought you were talking about fighting

why was time called

Posted by mrbluedog on 03-12-2011 02:42 PM:

yes why did you call time out ? to call time out and track still open should of resulted in strike being minused as well

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Posted by rghnd123 on 03-12-2011 02:44 PM:

time

Was called to try to tighten dogs back up. All cast members agreed on the timeout since dogs were getting out of hearing in different directions. We made the decision after all dogs were minused for leaving there trees.

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Posted by Bill(Chew) on 03-12-2011 03:26 PM:

Two were not trailing out of hearing, they were just quiet. Calling time out like you did should have resulted in track points being minused and the male's tree points should have stayed minus.

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Posted by JiM on 03-12-2011 03:39 PM:

They did everything just fine until they "unminused" the two dogs tree points for interference. That part is not in the rulebook so you made that one up. You can't do that. You can't make it up as you go even if it seems like the best way to handle it. The two caught them, they are minused. Nothing can change that. Everything else was handled just fine.

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Posted by rghnd123 on 03-12-2011 03:52 PM:

ruling

The tree points were minused. The handler of male ? The ruling. The MOH made the decision to delete points due to interference.

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Posted by JiM on 03-12-2011 03:55 PM:

Well that MOH was dead wrong. Not the first time I'm sure.

Posted by on 03-12-2011 04:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
They did everything just fine until they "unminused" the two dogs tree points for interference. That part is not in the rulebook so you made that one up. You can't do that. You can't make it up as you go even if it seems like the best way to handle it. The two caught them, they are minused. Nothing can change that. Everything else was handled just fine.

How could you justify deleting the strike points?

Posted by JiM on 03-12-2011 04:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mrbluedog
yes why did you call time out ? to call time out and track still open should of resulted in strike being minused as well

Rule 5(c) Delete points if dogs are trailing when time is called.

I don't know why they called time but I do know that when they called time, all do0gs struck in get deleted strike points.

Posted by on 03-12-2011 04:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Rule 5(c) Delete points if dogs are trailing when time is called.

I don't know why they called time but I do know that when they called time, all do0gs struck in get deleted strike points.

Posted by JiM on 03-12-2011 04:11 PM:

You get some confusion at times when dog are handled while carrying strike points.
Rule 17 says dogs cannot be called off trail without being minsed strike points. Rule 5(c) says if you call timeout, strike points are deleted. So that is the difference. If you call the dog off a track without timeout, the dogs strike is minused. If you call timeout before calling the dog off, you delete the strike.
If you want those dogs to be accountable for their strike points, don't call timeout.

Posted by john Duemmer on 03-12-2011 04:13 PM:

The owner of the male should have been stuck with his minus(NO REDOS) however he also would be entitled to a stud fee.

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Posted by JiM on 03-12-2011 04:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Joey
(c) If dogs are trailing when time is out.

I read that a little different than you do.

Time is out when timeout is called. I'm not gonna get into an arguement about semantics but I do know that when timeout is called, all strike points are deleted.

Posted by Drew on 03-12-2011 04:16 PM:

Jim, the way I read the post is the dogs quit treeing. I didn't read anything about going back on trail. The trail points should not have been deleted according to the information given because they called time out after the dogs quit treeing...it's hard to go back on track if you've got dogs breeding.

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Posted by cbcoonskinner on 03-12-2011 04:21 PM:

Why was the female scratched? for being in heat?

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Posted by jamie stall on 03-12-2011 04:21 PM:

thats what you get for bringing a female in heat ,and dont say you didnt know...........

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Posted by rghnd123 on 03-12-2011 04:25 PM:

tree points

Both dogs that were locked were caught by the two and minused. Then time out was called. During time out the two were found hooked together. The female was immediately scratched. The males minus stood until the MOH made the decision to delete for interference. I let the minus stand for the 2 catching both dogs. The female had to be scratched. I thought the minus should have stood because he did quit treeing. But this is a very tough call. It was not evident of the female being in heat before hunt time. There were 3 male and 1 female on the cast. The dogs got gone with no problems. The male in question had no problem getting treed and staying after his girlfriend was out of the mix. I know you can't make judgements from the rest of the hunt. Just how the MOH saw fit to judge this.

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Posted by jamie stall on 03-12-2011 04:26 PM:

why was she scratched??? because you cant run a female in heat and all that did was screw the male dogs hunt up.

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Posted by jamie stall on 03-12-2011 04:29 PM:

do you honestluy believe he didnt know she was in heat ??/ he new and all he did was put something on her ,it happens all the time. it is totally unfare for the male ,you were lucky the other males didnt get into a dog fight. then what would you do scratch the males and let her keep hunting.........

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Posted by on 03-12-2011 04:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Time is out when timeout is called. I'm not gonna get into an arguement about semantics but I do know that when timeout is called, all strike points are deleted.

I will agree Jim it is semantics. At the same time you cant go around calling time and gathering dogs when ever you feel like it. You call time for the reasons listed not because you want to (Tighten up on the dogs). Calling time for any reason other than what is listed in the rule then the dogs should be minused for being called off.

Posted by JiM on 03-12-2011 04:35 PM:

Yep, I agree and that has long been one of my peeves. Calling time when there is no reason.
But it happens all the time and we all know it. With a little creative thinking, you can always come up with a legit reason even if it really isn't legit. But the bottom line is that if time is called, 5(c) prevails.

Posted by rghnd123 on 03-12-2011 04:40 PM:

female

I agree about the fact he had to know. I did not see anything that led me to believe she was in heat. We did get lucky to not have a dog fight. Now he has to worry about brucelosis and be out money for a test. The timeout call may have not been right. But we ha dogs a half mile apart in pretty good wind. That was why the call was agreed upon. We were just trying to get the dogs back in the same woods. It was a registered cast nobody was calling timeout to keep from being minused on off game. We were just trying to keep em in the same woods.

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Posted by JiM on 03-12-2011 04:59 PM:

I've been proved wrong plenty of time on here. Its all a learning experience.

This is a discussion board. I'm very aware that my opinion ain't no more than anyone elses. I just toss mine out there more than most of you do. That don't mean it's worth anything.

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