UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- RAW beats kibble... (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=399133)

RAW beats kibble...

So many people complain about the price of kibble today, and that is because it's expensive. Even the "low budget" cheap feeds are getting expensive, and to add insult to injury these feeds are terrible for dogs nutrtionally. Feeding dogs cheap kibble is tantamount to feeding your children the dryest McDonald's French fries for their entire lives. Sooner or later, they will have serious health problems.

The simple fact is, no kibbled diet is as good as feeding a proper raw diet. And even most of the so-called "premium" kibbles have rice, corns, etc. in them ... and then cost over $1.00/lb. Worse, even the WalMart cheapies (i.e., Ol' Roy) are now costing $0.50/lb for what is little more than a bag of dried corns, glutens, soys, etc.

I am offering for your consideration a raw diet that is even cheaper to feed than Ol' Roy, can likewise be obtained at WalMart, but that offers a hundred times better nutrition. I will admit that this diet is not a "premium" RAW diet, but a low budget raw diet for larger kennel situations that trying to keep their costs down, and yet still provide their animals decent nutrition. The big claim that larger kennel operations cite as a reason for not feeding raw is "cost" and "convenience."

Well, feeding raw is always going to be a bit more inconvenient than feeding kibble, there is no way around that, but I have made this formula as convenient as I can (as again you can get everything at WalMart). It is likewise as cost-effective as it can be (less per-lb than even than Ol' Roy). Keep in mind, individual prices may differ, but at my local WalMart, Ol' Roy is now $20.88 for 40 lb (which is $0.52/lb), and the following raw diet I am listing can be put together for only $0.50/lb. Here are the items:

Food Item.............................Cost Per Meal

Raw Chicken Quarters (8 oz)................$0.290
1 Cup White Rice (8 oz).......................$0.087
Whole Egg (2 oz)................................$0.121
Plain Yogurt (1.2 oz)...........................$0.079
1 Tsp Lard (1/6th oz)..........................$0.013
˝ Vitamin Pill (0 oz)............................$0.014

19.2 oz meal........................................ $0.60 = Total Cost


* WalMart offers 10-lb bags of chicken quarters for $5.78, which pans-out to be only about $0.58/lb.
* You can get 20 lb of Matma white rice for $13.12 at WalMart also. Keep in mind that 1/3 cup of rice grains makes a full cup of cooked rice (after you add 2/3-cup of water and heat it). There are 50.5 cups of rice grains in the 20-lb sack, which after adding water make 151.5 cups of rice for $13.12, making each cup of rice cost only $0.087 (just under nine cents a cup).
* You can also get a carton of 60 (5-dozen) eggs for $7.24 (which comes to $0.97/lb), and each egg weighs about 2 oz (or about 12.1 cents per egg).
* You can buy a quart of "Great Value" plain yogurt for about $1.57 each (which is about $0.79/lb), and it has been my experience that you can scoop out about 20 heaping tablespoons per container, which is about 7.9 cents per serving.
* You can also get a bottle of 300 Equate Multi-Vitamin pills for $8.42. Since a little dog doesn’t need the full horse pill, you can cut each vitamin in half, which means you get 600 multi-vitamins for just over eight bucks (or $0.014/pill). The best way to feed the half-vitamin pill is to stuff it in a teaspoon of lard.
* You can get a 4-lb tub of Armour Lard for $4.82, and since 4 lb = 64 oz, and since 1 tsp = 1/6th of an ounce, this means you get 384 teaspoon servings for less than five bucks, or $0.013 per serving (just over one cent).

This means the above meal would cost 29 cents + 8.7 cents + 12.1 cents + 7.9 cents + 1.3 cents + 1.4 cents which would equal a total cost of 60.4 cents for 19.2 oz of feed, which translates to just over $0.030/ounce—or just over $0.50/lb—and it’s still a better meal compared to just about any commercial kibble.

That’s right, you can shop at WalMart and feed your dogs a low budget raw diet for less than what it costs to feed Ol’ Roy, the lousiest feed on the market, and yet it is better for your dogs than virtually any high-end kibble. You don't need to go to butchers, slaughterhouses, or any other inconvenient spot for many folks ... you can get all of these things right at WalMart.

Just purchase a crock pot for the rice (also at WalMart), in a size commensurate with the number of dogs you have (1 cup of rice per dog), and you will be saving money AND feeding your dogs better. There is simply no excuse to feed kibble anymore with today's prices.

Again, I do admit there are raw diets better than this (no rice, etc); but rice provides a good filler to keep the weight on, and my point was to provide a LOW BUDGET ("anyone can get it") raw diet for larger kennel situations.

All you need is a meat cleaver, the crock pot, and a cutting board. Lay the number of eggs, vitamins, chicken pieces out there ... and stack a buncha bowls ... and you can feed a yard of dogs better than any kibble ... for LESS MONEY than any kibble.

As a person who has fed raw for 30 years, I have a few suggestions to add - if you put just a bit of effort into it, you can feed raw for half the price of a half decent kibble....
The only problem I see with this diet, is that I would not have chicken as the meat source all the time if you are a breeder - red meat is essential for reproduction.
When ground beef is on sale, get the cheapest (highest fat content) they have, and use that as the meat source. Also organ meat once a week or so - beef kidneys and pork liver are generally the cheapest - then you can drop the vitamins and the lard.
For the yogurt, you can substitute whatever dairy source is on sale - buttermilk, sour cream, etc., or the cheapest is to get goat milk replacer or calf milk replacer at the feed store and just sprinkle a bit on.
If you are near a butcher, you can get scraps, bone meal and bones for free or next to it. (or if you have your own animals or game processed, tell them to save ALL the bones and organs for you).
You can get all of these things cheaper than Walmart if you put a bit of effort into sourcing it - look for producers or processors that don't sell retail - I get chicken backs from a processor for less than 25 cents a pound, in unlimited quantities - I have a freezer just for dog meat, so I can buy enough to make it worth the trip.
Laurie

Does the chicken have bone in it? And if it does do you take the bone out of it?

Laurie you are absolutely correct. This is just a very simple base. This diet was comprised mostly for the ease. Sure you can do it better and cheaper with a bit more effort.

Anyone attempting or crossing over to RAW feed will want to research, research and do more research!

Ryan, yes the bones are left in the quarters. The quarters are left un-cooked. The bones will simply break apart, like feeding knuckles or femurs. If you cook the bones they then will split resulting in choking issues. Keeping the chicken fresh and your feed bowls, as well as prep area, clean will minimize any salmonella problems.

The crucnhing of the bones also aids in tarter control and provides a wonderfull source of calcium in it's purest form.

Anyone feeding RAW will notice 2 things right off the bat...

1. Less stool.
2. Less water consumption.

Less stool is the result of minimal waste of feed. Meaning the dog will get alot more of what it needs out of the feed.

Less water consumption is due to the meat being comprised of a high % of water. Meaning the dog is being hydrated from the feed. The less the dog needs water, the less strain on the bodies natrual filter, the kidney.

Thanks guys I love this post!!!!!

raw vs kibble

This was a timely post for us! thanks. We had been feeding diamond, but switched to cooking our own. I like the different suggestions, as I had just asked about the cheaper hamburger as an alternative to chicken.

__________________
"Whether you think you can or you think you can't. You're right."
-Henry Ford

Strawberry Mtn Kennels
Home of GrNtCh Pr Strawberry Mt Let There Be Rock-Rock
GrNtCh Pr Strawberry Mt I'm A Lumberjack-Timber

good post!!!

What about worms from raw meat or do you cook it

__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

what size dog do you recommend that amount for?

oh, and I can feed my dogs for about 45 cents a day on a good brand of dry dog food.....so how is 60 cents cheaper?

__________________
Jerry and Peggi Benson
Benson's Oakwood Kennels

Never worried much about it because I feed dog food at around 20 dollars a bag and my dogs live to be 13 or 14 years old and hunt just about till they die, but this "techno" guy seems to really know his dog food and has studied it, not hard to tell the Contenders from The Pretenders, and techno is a Contender when it comes to Dog Food.

__________________
Perry Metcalf.. Go Big Blue !

I can feed my dogs down here for .41 per pound, a good 24/20 feed. I would like to feed raw if the cost was lower but in the last few years mom and pop butcher shops have disappeared. I would say that I used to feed raw and if fed alone the dogs coat didnt look as healthy as when fed along with kibble.

psiskjr

I've got to admit I'm interested in the raw diet. In the past I was worried about the raw meat b/c as someone who's had salmonella preached in his head I worry about feeding strictly raw meat even to my dogs

a couple ?'s

• Can u freeze the meat like say, a a good meat source was on sale somewhere, would I be able to buy a good bit a freeze it or is that a big "no-no?"

• What about deer meat? I know it's high protein but low in fat, but would it be a good source of protein?

• How do u determine a dog's daily ration?

• What age do u start pups/young dogs on it?
- Do u use the same ingredients/ratios for pups?

__________________
Beaver Creek Kennels
beavercreekkennels@ymail.com
(205) 712-4326

• PKC Ch 'PR' Triple X-Rated
http://www.hunt101.com/img/342861.jpg

• NITECH Beaver Creek Knothead
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/RBoyette/KnotHead-2.jpg

• Death Row Psycho aka "De"
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/RBoyette/Dee11-10-a.jpg

• 'PR' Skuna River Style
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/RBoyette/Stone2.jpg

**R.I.P.**
UKC NITECH - PKC CH
'PR'Beaver Creek Stylish Nellie
http://www.hunt101.com/img/369634.jpg

Pups eating raw chicken wings. I forgot to date this picture but I'm guessing they were about 6 wks old there.

__________________
Chawn
Rincon Kennel (formerly Chisum-Trail Kennel)

Don't take life too seriously -- nobody gets out alive!

Russell yes you can freeze any meat. I would buy chicken quarters,livers and hearts in large amounts when on sale. Two key points with frozen meat...

1. Frozen meat eunsures a dog must chew up the meat. Meat containing bones need to be chewed up. That would minimize a dog swallowing too large of a chunk un chewed.

2. Feeding frozen meat in the warm months is about like humans eating ice cream or something cold to cool the body.

Deer meat is great. I have cut up a few deer for dog feed only. I made sure I left fat on the meat and kept rib and leg bones. I will post an equation tmrw to help with what amount to feed. The amounts, like amounts suggested on kibble bags, is only a base.

Thats what I was wondering, amounts?

__________________
Perry Metcalf.. Go Big Blue !

I fed raw to my schutzhund dogs for a few years now. It is time consuming but you can't feed better than a raw diet . The meat I use most it chicken quarters backs and necks.I can get a mix of these in 30 pound boxes at our packing plant. I then mix in an egg, liver(or some other organ meat) a fish oil pill and a couple others vitamins.. I also use deer lamb rabbit and beef off and on during the week. It does amazing things to your dogs and the stool is almost zero.

do u put it all in a bowl and just feed it or do u mix all in a crock pot making a "slop" like feed?

They call it a raw diet for a reason. Lol. No cooking. Cooked meat take all the nutrition out of it. Feed it raw bones and all.

Roughly 2% of the dogs body weight is the base of how much to feed. Again this is just a base. Some dogs need more while others need less.

My dog weighs roughly 80lbs so I take 80 x .02 that gives me 1.6lbs of total feed I need to use as a base. 70% of that needs to be protien.

I buy powderd flax seed from wal-mart. It is a great source of omega 3&6 which is for hair and skin.

I feed as much RAW as I can we use to get tripe for $2 but they had to stop selling.
But when I am trapping the dogs get every beaver I trap but be careful they will put on wait muskrats are also good.

I have one female black mouth that starts eating the beaver as I am skinning them on the tailgate.

Any deer meat that does not get eaten buy us gets feed and I put a new deer in the freezer. Any road kill deer i get that are fresh gets fed as well

But the best source for free meat i your grocery store here they cant keep the meat that long as the government gives them a best before date. So i take it for free and never had any bad meat yet

They still get the best kibble I can afford.

Comes down to garbage in garbage out witch means more vet bills

I always thaught that the protiens in raw food Where harder to break down into usable energy.

__________________
"Hey dude you just struck my dog".
home of
WCH NiteCH GRCH'PR' Foggy Bottoms Blu Hi-Lo brown R.I.P.
GRNiteCH 'PR'Brownings Blu Dixie Dynomite
Pr'Nite CH Brownings Blu Judy...... Legend X Star qualified for 2017 Zones 4th place RQE and 2018 zones 1st place RQE