UKC Forums - The Forgotten Hounds Of History

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Posted by HistoryNutt on 07-19-2010 02:49 PM:

The Forgotten Hounds Of History

Any of you that follow my rantings know I am on a crusade to get MACK TWAIN in the TWBFA Hall Of Fame.

So if you will bear with me I am going to start a thread called. The Forgotten Hounds Of History. This is to be hopefully about some of our Treeing Walkers of the past that had great influence on the breed. Great influence but they are not being recognized for it in the present day.

There are numerous dogs a person could put on this list but the three that stand out the most are MACK TWAIN, HERSHBERGER'S SPOT JR., HERSHBERGER'S TEXAS BABE.

I will add more later.

__________________
The History Should Be Known
Don

http://www.finleyriverchief.com

Sites I like to visit that have a lot of information:

A Lot Of Old Pictures And Ads

http://finleyriverchief.forumotion.net

Register On The Above Forum To See A Lot More Old Pictures And Ads.
There are more that you can't access unless registered.

Posted by HistoryNutt on 07-19-2010 02:51 PM:

The Forgotten Hounds Of History MACK TWAIN

I will be posting a lot of old ads on this thread and making comments that have already been made on other threads. One of the reasons for repeating myself at times will be to make sure the thread is kept alive.

Any help doing this will be greatly appreciated since I have let a couple disappear.

When someone thinks about the foundation of the breed one of the first names that will pop up is Lester Nance or the White River Strain (Nance). While this is correct and Mr. Nance did so much for the Treeing Walker Breed in getting it started and recognized there was also more people and dogs involved.

The first Treeing Walker World Hunt winner was WHITE RIVER BOONE in 1949. That same year WHITE RIVER ROWDY won 2nd place and would be the first Treeing Walker World Champion Female. Rowdy was out of WHITE RIVER KING.

Here is an ad on MACK TWAIN. It was run in 1947. One of the things not mentioned in this ad but which Old Mack and the Mack Twain strain was noted for was their track driving ability. But he was also a tree dog and back then there was problems finding real natural tree dogs.

The Mack Twain Strain was used by a number of the important breeders of the day. And as you go through the old ads of that time and the 50's and 60's you find ads through out that mention Mack Twain being in the bloodlines. Mack Twain was important in the foundation of the treeing walker breed.

You can go to http://www.finleyriverchief.com/MACK_TWAIN.php

if you want to see some of the dogs that have him in their pedigree and most of them numerous times.

The Hershberger's raised a litter out of Mack Twain and Little Tike. In the same ad they offered pups out of Haslouer's Spot and Hershberger's Tip. This is the cross Hershberger's Spot Jr. came from.

In that ad Hershberger said: "We consider Mack and Spot the two best male dogs in this territory. The pups from these two matings should produce some real coon dogs."

A son of Mack Twain, HIRAM WALKER, was used by Lester Nance to breed WHITE RIVER ROWDY to. From that cross came a dog called DEEP RIVER JOE. Joe was the grand father of 1960 ACHA World Champion, the first UKC Grand Nite Champion DEEP RIVER MIKE. Mike is a great grand father of SPRING CREEK ROCK.

I will provide more Mack Twain connections from time to time on this thread.

MACK TWAIN

Posted by HistoryNutt on 07-19-2010 02:52 PM:

HERSHBERGER'S SPOT JR. The Forgotten Hounds Of History

Another one of the true forgotten hounds of history is HERSHBERGER'S SPOT JR.

If you are able to see a set of papers with his daddy's name on it you will see the name Smoky River. If you will look on an older set of papers where technology hasn't caught up you will see his daddy's name as Haslouer's Spot. The reason for the Spot Jr. name.

Haslouer and Smokey River why does those names seem familar??

The Bluetick man??

This strain was started when Hershberger single registered a Walker female called S. R. Tip. I would say the S.R. stood for Smokey River. Now Warren Haslouer's Smokey River Blueticks are thought of as just that. But at the start they were also Redtick and English hounds. Every once in a while a dog would come out with very few if any ticks and looked like Walkers.

Hershberger would often buy these hounds when possible. I don't know for a fact but I would say there is a chance Tip was one of these. Tip was bred o Haslouer's Spot (Smoky River on papers). Spot was a hound that came from Haslouer that was Black and White in color. Spot was one of the best coon dogs of his day along with Mack Twain.

From this cross came HERSHBERGER'S SPOT JR. Here is the dog you could say started the Hershberger Strain. Now there are a lot of dogs that carried the Hershberger name that weren't related to Spot Jr that also helped put the Strain on the map. Spot Jr was lost for about 45 days. During this time Hershberger bought Little Butch, thinking he may never find Spot. He traced Litttle Butch's background and single registered him.

Spot Jr. showed back up so in 1954 Hershberger had two good coon hounds going strong. He bred Spot Jr. to Hershberger's Maggie Babe. From this cross came Hershberger's Okla Spot. you will also see him on some old papers as Russells Okla Spot. Don Russell bought him from Hershberger as a pup and in 1960 Hershberger bought him back. Shortly after that he made him a Nite Champion then a Champion.

Two of Hershberger's Spot Jr.'s most famous offspring are STAN'S SAILOR BOY and HERSHBERGER'S OKLA. SPOT. You will find these two hounds tracing back to many different strains through numerous threads.

So here you have Hershbergers Spot Jr. being the father of Hershberger's Okla Spot and Stan's Sailor Boy but there is more he has done besides these two dogs. Spot Jr. was bred to Kirbys Lady. From this cross came a dog called Austins Prairie Spot. He was the sire of Harshas Prairie Star, the mother of Oak Ridge Hired Hand. Hired Hand is the grand sire of Willow Slough Kate, Spring Creek Rock's mother.

If you are a Yadkin River fan you know the importance of Stan's Sailor Jr. in this strain. Yadkin River Jeff was a grandson of Sailor Jr. as was Yadkin River Tom, Jeff's other grand sire.

Listing dogs that go back to the Hershberger Hounds could be a task in itself. I will list some hounds that goes back to the Hershberger Hounds, a lot of these numerous times.

Clay's Duke King, McCallister's Finley River Banjo, Norman's Coon Stopper, Ledbetter's Tennessee Lead, Merchant's Bawling Barney, Dohoney's Boone, River Bend Flag, Gold Creek Mundo, Phele's Midwest Banjo, Ball's Candy, Owen's Hardwood Bozo, Rock River Sackett Jr., Hickory Nut Harry, Nocturnal Nailor, Spring Creek Radar, House's Lipper, Spring Creek Dummy, Kaw River Chief, House's Clint, Ellis' Kentucky Spot, House's Tom Tom.

HERSHBERGER'S SPOT JR. like MACK TWAIN deserve and should be in the Hall Of Fame.

HERSHBERGER'S SPOT JR. - HERSHBERGER'S LITTLE BUTCH - HERSHBERGER'S KANSAS QUEEN - HERSHBERGER'S KANSAS ROSE

Hershberger's Spot Jr. and Hershberger's Kansas Rose are the parents of 1961 ACHA World Ch. Stan's Sailor Boy.

Stan's Sailor Boy

Here is an ad by Dick Hershberger offering two litter of pups for sale.

One Litter Out Of MACK TWAIN.

The Other Litter Out Of HASLOUER'S SPOT.

Posted by chuck west on 07-10-2011 10:51 PM:

btt

Great post ,,keep em coming ,,ty chuck west

Posted by wvhoundsman on 07-11-2011 01:40 AM:

THANKS FOR POSTING NUTT, ALWAYS A GOOD READ.....

Posted by l.lyle on 07-15-2011 12:40 AM:

My oldest papers go back to House's Elmer and Queen on Bawlie. But they were not PR. Do you know where they came from? I though it was Nance, but I may be wrong.

Posted by Glenn Wells on 07-15-2011 03:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by l.lyle
My oldest papers go back to House's Elmer and Queen on Bawlie. But they were not PR. Do you know where they came from? I though it was Nance, but I may be wrong.

I think both House's Queen and House's Elmer were both single registered dogs, I believe I have the dogs that Queen was out of on a pedigree. I'll see if I can get that part posted for you.

__________________
D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
UKC MOH

Posted by l.lyle on 07-15-2011 04:23 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wells
I think both House's Queen and House's Elmer were both single registered dogs, I believe I have the dogs that Queen was out of on a pedigree. I'll see if I can get that part posted for you.

Thanks, I realize this is getting close back to the foundation Walker dogs. We all know they did not fall out the sky with House, Merchant, Hershburger, or Finley River printed on them. And who cares? I realize the registry cannot go back farther than the breed itself. Evidently, its still a work in progress to get the English ticks out of them.

Posted by Glenn Wells on 07-15-2011 04:38 AM:

l.lyle here is what I have on House's Queen, goes back to her grandparents anyway . That's the reason I didn't get Maggie's 6 generation pedigree, as she was the 1st PR dog out of House's Chief, knew I would pay for more than I got. With her son's pedigree, got to see the start of Finley River Chief's line. I did have a dog that had Bartos Bill in it's pedigree, that you had ask about a while back, but had gave the papers to a guy when he took her. I think Smokey ended up in South Carolina, as I got a call from a breeder asking about her. I did find a dog on this pedigree called Bartos Tennesee Belle, out of NTCH Merchant's Bawlie and Dolan's Tenn. Jude , comes in on GRNTCH Mears Finley River Dan as his great grandmother. On the other pedigree the Bartos and Collins names was there, guess I need to keep all my pedigrees instead of letting them go with the dogs !

House's Queen C784-833

----------Bob
-----King
----------Sue
House's Queen
----------Joe
-----Fanny
----------Lou

__________________
D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
UKC MOH

Posted by l.lyle on 07-15-2011 05:23 AM:

That's very interesting. Was the south Carolina Breeders name Mr. J.O. Hutto from Harleyville, SC ? If so I think Barto's Bill was out of Deep River Mike and then Barto Bill produced Collins Roller.. Hence my first Walker was named Siren Roller. It seems that Houses Bawlie was just an upstart back then following a NiteCh CH Shady Lake Bawlie. Whatever, I wish I had him back. He would tree squirrels and fetch ducks and doves.

Posted by l.lyle on 07-15-2011 05:38 AM:

I understand why UKC cannot make all that information public because that is their records, However, I wish they could put it up in an uncopyable format to where you couldn't even printscreen copy it. Wouldn't that be great?

Posted by l.lyle on 07-15-2011 05:44 AM:

What was the start of the Findley River Chief line??

Posted by Glenn Wells on 07-15-2011 06:12 AM:

It would be great if they put up a data base so that you could see where the lines came from for sure. I'll get Finley River up in a few minutes, luckily still have papers still out.

__________________
D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
UKC MOH

Posted by Glenn Wells on 07-15-2011 06:35 AM:

Here is the start for the Finley River line, guess it's Chief's 3 Generation .

-------------Perkins Butch
---------Taylors Sonny Boy
-------------Perkins Sue
-----NTCH Shetlers Sonny Boy (C753-172)
-------------Rineharts Joe
---------Uhls Nancy
-------------Williams Nancy
NTCH Finley River Chief (C759-479)
-------------Boerings Buck
---------Drum
-------------Boerings Queen
-----Bixlers Supreme Sally (C751-583)
-------------Eichermans Web
---------Bell
-------------Moores Sally

__________________
D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
UKC MOH

Posted by l.lyle on 07-15-2011 07:34 AM:

Hang on. Seems I remember "Stan's' Sailor Boy and Shetlers Sonny Boy along with Motley's Missouri Major in that line. Were they before or after?

Posted by Hoghill Hounds on 07-18-2011 05:03 PM:

Good Stuff!

Thanks for the post....BTT

Good huntin to all,
Mike

Posted by HistoryNutt on 07-28-2011 05:31 AM:

NELSON'S BUTCH

Posted by HistoryNutt on 08-03-2011 08:17 PM:

MERCHANTS BAWLIE with James Merchant and BIXLER'S SUPREME SALLY with Glen Bixler.

Posted by elkrauskopf on 07-31-2012 07:12 AM:

btt

Posted by Dodson on 07-31-2012 07:23 AM:

Great post

keep them coming

__________________
GRCH GRNITECH 'pr' BUFFALO RIVER PEDRO HTX3

Posted by Driveshaft on 07-31-2012 02:26 PM:

gr8

post.

Posted by HistoryNutt on 07-31-2012 07:44 PM:

MACK TWAIN

Posted by HistoryNutt on 07-31-2012 07:47 PM:

INDIANA BOONE BOY

CHAMPION INDIANA BOONE BOY

One of the foundation sires of the Treeing Walker breed.

Boone Boy was actually out of registered Blueticks. His sire was PR bred. But as you can see he came out Tri-Colored. His sire "PR" Blue Tom (75068). His dam Buchers Blue Judy (258-075)

Posted by HistoryNutt on 08-20-2012 02:34 PM:

SHADY LAKE BAWLEY

CHAMPION NITE CHAMPION SHADY LAKE BAWLEY

Posted by Doug Adams on 08-20-2012 02:46 PM:

HistoryNutt, Nice Post! Do you happen to know the dates on these ads? Just curious what year they were from

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